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Post by bonzo on Feb 20, 2023 18:52:40 GMT
If the guitar isn't all you hoped and expected I would be interested if you decided to move it on as is.
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Post by tomgiemza on Feb 20, 2023 19:21:27 GMT
If the guitar isn't all you hoped and expected I would be interested if you decided to move it on as is. I think I'll keep it, but if I would change my mind I'll remember. It's safe to play the guitar for at least few days before making final judgement.
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 20, 2023 20:17:47 GMT
Thanks for all the details about my new guitar. I think I wouldn't notice many things that you have mentioned. By the way, what thickness would be correct? I already thought about new tuners when I was restringing, these are very loose. If I'll decide to refinish it I'll surely ask you for the hula girl. I love this thread, it's very cool! The top & back should be 5 to 6mm, and I think yours is 4mm, but I might be wrong. They are all nice guitars and they all played really well. I was just pushing to get something extra and special, which eventually I achieved. Shine On Michael
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Post by tomgiemza on Feb 20, 2023 23:39:32 GMT
Today I had a lot of fun with this guitar. It works for me in open tunings and standard (I still can't make a good use of my steel body in standard). I never played a wood body resonator before. I was aware of basic differences between wood and steel, but when I got a chance to play both side by side, I was surprised how significant was the differences in sound projection. Steel gives me the impression that the sound is coming slowly from a place far away with a lot of reverb, wood sound more present, spanky, "in your face".
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 21, 2023 16:11:52 GMT
Those differences are less pronounced on the finished model. I remember yours being a great sounding guitar, but not bright enough. The coverplate has an affect on the tone too, and I noticed that the coverplate on yours didn't control the sound in the same way as a regular sieve coverplate does. However, it is still a beautiful guitar and as I said earlier, I was pushing for something extra and I pushed until I got it. These are all intricacies that matter when designing and creating a new guitar and it is the reason that we make a few prototype or test guitars along the way.
I have recordings of myself playing wood and metal bodied guitars that it is difficult to tell which is which. So it is all down to the individual guitar, not the fact of whether it is wood or metal.
Shine On Michael
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Post by triolian1928 (ex 1928triolian) on Feb 21, 2023 17:09:13 GMT
Those differences are less pronounced on the finished model. I remember yours being a great sounding guitar, but not bright enough. The coverplate has an affect on the tone too, and I noticed that the coverplate on yours didn't control the sound in the same way as a regular sieve coverplate does. However, it is still a beautiful guitar and as I said earlier, I was pushing for something extra and I pushed until I got it. These are all intricacies that matter when designing and creating a new guitar and it is the reason that we make a few prototype or test guitars along the way. I have recordings of myself playing wood and metal bodied guitars that it is difficult to tell which is which. So it is all down to the individual guitar, not the fact of whether it is wood or metal. Shine On Michael Yes, it is all down to the individual guitar. I owned an all original, untouched 1931 Duolian (in great condition too) which sounded less bright than any wood body I've had, but at the same time it sounded "in your face"... Reverb: certain Nationals have plenty, some much, much less (which I've personally always preferred). TEST 2: I just found the tone close to the 28 wood Triolians, obviously with less projection, but the same kind of "presence", very compact tone. As for the coverplate, all '28 Triolians were made with that coverplate construction. They switched in 1929 to the sieve ones. And yes the first coverplate design can sound different, but in my opinion could be just very little mellower.
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Post by tomgiemza on May 5, 2023 10:36:39 GMT
I began the process of refinishing this guitar. Stripping off the old paint completely will be the most difficult part. I began sanding (I wished I could strip it clean with acetone, but it don't work on this kind of paint). I discovered many layers of paint, usually there are at least 4: yellow-red-green-yellow (I wonder why). I almost finished, I will go gentle with a smoother sand paper on the last layer. I didn't strip the fretboard yet, but I guess it will take a lot of time. I'm reluctant to use a heat gun or chemical strippers, because I don't want to damage the frets.
Right now I have no idea how to take the paint off of the coverplate, but I'm sure I'll figure out something. Too much heat from a heat gun could separate the wire net from the coverplate.
By the way, I'm not an expert, but after looking inside the guitar I would tell that it's very well made.
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Post by Michael Messer on May 5, 2023 12:09:38 GMT
Hi Tom, The 4 layers of paint are there because this was a test/prototype and they tried various ways of achieving the result, which was to copy a 1928 wood bodied National Triolian. I would not recommend using heat on the neck, it could cause all kinds of problems. I forget now if your coverplate is brass or steel - I think it has to be brass? Definitely do not use heat on it, I would use a paint stripper and if it does affect the mesh, you could just solder or glue it on again, or get some nice new brass mesh. You would need to measure the size of the weave in the mesh and you don't have to buy large quantities, but this gives you an idea... www.robinsonwirecloth.co.uk/online-shop/Brass-woven-16-mesh-1-233mm-aperture-p547785405Yours and all the prototypes were very well made. They are handmade with a lot of care and attention to detail. I forget now, but does yours have nice thick wood struts like tramlines on the inside of the back? Maybe post some photos of the guitar, inside and out, so I can see and remind myself what it is. There may be some things we can do to make it better. Shine On Michael
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Post by tomgiemza on May 6, 2023 19:50:30 GMT
Thanks.
It has a steel coverplate. Right, it's not a problem to solder a mesh, I'll try a paint stripper. Yes, it has 2 wood struts. I'll post a few photos on Tuesday when I'll get back home.
If the plywood will look nice I plan to use a stain (dark brown on the body, and lighter one on the neck) and Tru-Oil. I rather do it instead of struggling to make a 1928 Triolian replica, because it would be very difficult to find the right paints.
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Post by tomgiemza on May 9, 2023 19:04:34 GMT
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Post by Michael Messer on May 9, 2023 19:47:16 GMT
Tom, will you put a label inside, or write on the inside what this guitar is. It would be shame if in the future nobody knows its origin.
Shine On Michael
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Post by tomgiemza on May 9, 2023 20:00:01 GMT
Sure. There's just "MM Prototype 2 2009" under the resonator. I'll try to make a nice label and put it under the f-hole. Something like: Michael Messer Blues '28 prototype 2009 refinished 2023
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Post by Michael Messer on May 9, 2023 20:06:53 GMT
Sure. There's just "MM Prototype 2 2009" under the resonator. I'll try to make a nice label and put it under the f-hole. Something like: Michael Messer Blues '28 prototype 2009 refinished 2023 Perfect! It should be there for posterity. Thank you 🙏 Shine On Michael
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Post by tomgiemza on May 25, 2023 9:24:18 GMT
I still didn't finish, but I'll soon. I got it all ready for a new finish. But I abandoned the idea of using the wood stain. There are a few reasons: I couldn't get rid of some small spots of paint on the body (even chemical stripper couldn't and I didn't want to sand it too much, because it's plywood). Neck, fretboard and headstock are stripped perfectly clean (there's a beautiful grain on the fretboard), but I tried the stain already and it didn't came out like I hoped it would. So I'll put a solid colour everywhere, but more whitish/light beige than original triolian yellow.
Currently I'm looking for a flower decals and I think it would be the best to put it under the clear coat for durability. I hold nothing against a hula girls, but I would rather use the flowers for this guitar. If I'll find them.
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