Crossnote tunning - the flat third

[purpleorange]

I have difficulty getting the flat third to sound just right to my ears when playing an open chord in crossnote tuning, in vestapol tuning the third seems a bit more forgiving but I will normally flatten it slightly to sweeten the chord.

I play in D minor and the f always sounds a little out, is this normal or are there some sot of tuning tricks I should be aware of?

[bonzo]

You could try tuning the F to G.
Don't know if this is the sound you are looking for but it does make a D minor tuning sound nice and moody.

Best wishes to you all, John

[snakehips]

Hi there !

I've noticed the same problem, eg. when playing the ascending intro riff to Skip James' "Devil Got My Woman", especially when you reach the 3rd string, 3rd fret, at the top of the ascending riff.

On a seperate note, I notice Bukka White tends to hold his 1st finger on the 3rd string, 1st fret, most of the time, or makes use of the ability to hammer-on the note, making his Open D Minor tuning songs, not actually in minor keys.

[Michael Messer]

There is more leeway in vestapol because much of the music you are playing requires a blurring of the major/minor to make so called blue notes. In a standard minor tuning, accuracy of notation is very noticeable because the F is making the minor chord. If the guitar goes slightly sharp up the fretboard, that minor note will become more and more out of tune as you go up. In some pieces I play, in all tunings, I flatten the open string so the fretted notes are more in tune. I do this quite a lot in open G with the B string.

Shine On
Michael

[purpleorange]

Thanks for the responses.

I am guessing that there is no magic formula for flattening notes and it will vary from guitar to guitar, I will have to learn to trust my ear.

Bonzo - that tuning is a new one to me, I will give it a try.

[pete1951]

Do you by any chance use a plain 3rd string? It is very common for the thickest plain string ( usually the 2nd ) to play sharp when fretted , particularly on a resonator. The narrow saddle is, for the best tone straight, whereas on standard acoustics and most electrics the bridge is compensated to help keep in tune (particularly as you go up the neck). On lower frets the plain string also sharpens as you press it down, and many slide players like their nut to be a little high, which makes it even worse.
Pete

Many (all?) classic’30s recordings were not done on well setup guitars ,but there is a magic about them that means you ignore or don’t notice any minor imperfections that would drive a modern player crazy. Combined with a mastery of their (sometimes imperfect) instruments some amazing music was made.

[purpleorange]

I don't use a plain string but I may be noticing it more than normal as I have a fresh phosphor bronze 3rd string and the rest of the strings are older nickel strings.

[Pickers Ditch]

Feb 21, 2021 16:17:51 GMT pete1951 said:

Many (all?) classic’30s recordings were not done on well setup guitars, but there is a magic about them that means you ignore or don’t notice any minor imperfections that would drive a modern player crazy. Combined with a mastery of their (sometimes imperfect) instruments some amazing music was made.

There in a nutshell is what good, live music is really about...

[blueshome1]

Feb 20, 2021 23:59:23 GMT bonzo said:

You could try tuning the F to G.
Don't know if this is the sound you are looking for but it does make a D minor tuning sound nice and moody.

Best wishes to you all, John

The tuning then becomes the infamous DADGAD, a modal tuning and well away from the minor. It’s often necessary to sweeten the tuning to suit the guitar and song.

[Michael Messer]

Do away with digital tuners and there will be less problems with intonation. So many people these days use their eyes, rather than their ears for tuning and checking intonation. Most recording engineers these days use their eyes reading a screen, rather than their ears. All this digital approach to hearing pitch drives me nuts! In 1976-ish Korg invented the first portable battery powered instrument tuner, and from that point onwards the whole planet is in the same tuning, which prior to such inventions was not the case. Even when they remaster old music these days, they adjust the pitch to be exactly on a particular note. Call me old fashioned, but it really is not a good way to go.

Shine On
Michael

[tigercubt20]

Feb 23, 2021 12:14:04 GMT Michael Messer said:

Do away with digital tuners and there will be less problems with intonation. So many people these days use their eyes, rather than their ears for tuning and checking intonation. Most recording engineers these days use their eyes reading a screen, rather than their ears. All this digital approach to hearing pitch drives me nuts! In 1976-ish Korg invented the first portable battery powered instrument tuner, and from that point onwards the whole planet is in the same tuning, which prior to such inventions was not the case. Even when they remaster old music these days, they adjust the pitch to be exactly on a particular note. Call me old fashioned, but it really is not a good way to go.

Shine On
Michael

i totally agree, i started out using an a natural tuning fork, then adjusting by ear to make the guitar sound nice. then i bought one of those early KORG tuners, it ate batteries, and kept falling of my knee while using it. it made the guitar sound not good. its in a cupboard somewhere. it might be just the thing for robot music, along with singers using vocoders to sound like mechanoids. i am missing live music, real live humans, playing real live music, in real time, and actualy being there to watch a human heroically walk a tightrope without a safety net.

my mm 28 blues recently purchased, has no need of tuning devices, it sounds fantastic when i sometimes tune it slightly flat, it gets annoyed when i sometimes accidentally tune it slighly sharp, forcing me to readjust. it really likes open g. some strange symbiotic relationship, sometimes i feel the guitar is playing me. thanks for the music MM, and the guitar.

drink tea, jim.