Uke construction and cone availability

[pete1951]

A rising number of grandchildren means I need to make at least 3 ukes. In the old days I would have got cones from Busker but that source is no more. A quick internet search does not reveal a supplier. Michael M has a cigar box guitar which has a single cone from a tri-cone, which works ok, so as I have half a dozen ( old Busker ones, Michaels is an NRP ?) I think I will try a conversation.

The Biscuits ,I guess, will need to be a snug fit to the top of the cone ( any small voids could be filled with epoxy)

Here is a sketch of my idea of how I might do it, any input appreciated



Pete

[snakehips]

Madness. Sheer madness !

[Michael Messer]

Pete, that is exactly how Kurt Schoen fitted the biscuit in the Turbo Diddley cigar box guitar he made for me. It was a gift from Kurt in 2008 and is a beautiful thing.

The biscuit is an exact fit. In fact when I got it Kurt had fitted a Beard 6" cone, so I replaced it with a National one and it was still a really good fit. The instrument sounds great and the cone sings.


MM with Schoen Turbo Diddley by Rosanna Messer Stalbow - ©2008

Shine On
Michael

[vent]

Hi Michael

Nice guitar. Out of interest what guage strings do you use on the 4 string Turbo Diddley reso?

Also be interested in guages people might use on a 3 string reso?

I'm using 46 30 22 and wondering if dropping down a little may make the 6" cone sing a bit sweeter.

Cheers

Phil

[pete1951]

The problem with any smaller than standard body size guitars is acoustic tone. A guitar is (usually) the size it is to get the best tone out of it. So a uke or a mandolin would probably not sound like it should if they had guitar sized bodies. This is the main problem in getting a good tone from a cigar box. I think they work best acoustically tuned fairly high, as the body does not develop much bass.
In a resent experiment I put a uke cone in a very small electric, I had had the cone in a body that was a bit like a round back mandolin, with it tuned A E A ( about the same as stings 5,4 and 3 on an open G ,up a tone) it had a very useable acoustic tone. In the electric however the much smaller body did not allow a good tone to develop.( though it’s electric sound was fine)

As strings are fairly cheap I would try some heavy stings, but my gut feeling is that on a single 6” cone, on a small body the sweet spot would be higher.
Pete

Hopefully Michael will tell us what strings and tuning he has on his 6” cone,

[Michael Messer]

I use standard tenor guitar strings - 13 17 26 36 and tune it all ways, up and down, mostly DF#AD / EG#BE / GDBD / AEC#E and sometimes like a sarod - CGCF. It sounds lovely as a funky sounding sarod.

This instrument is different to most cigar box guitars that I know of because the box is a one hundred year old solid wood cigar box that has been reinforced with struts. Much like an early wood National the wood is a few mm thick and the body really does perform like a speaker cabinet. The neck is made from a 150 year old wine barrel and it has a proper neck pole construction inside the body. I am not really a fan of cigar box guitars, but this thing is different to anything I have seen. It is very loud, rich and full sounding and is closer to a banjo than it is to guitar. There is no need to fit a pickup, whenever I have gigged with it I am backing off the mic, rather than the opposite. I don't play it often, but it's a beautiful thing. I believe Kurt has built these for among others...Billy Gibbons, Bonnie Raitt and Taj Mahal.

Shine On
Michael.

[Michael Messer]

Here are a couple of close ups...





Shine On
Michael

[pete1951]

Thanks Michael, if my theory is correct it might not sound so good with the bass 4 strings of a guitar, we may never know . I will however, carry on with making my cone fitting biscuits.
Pete

[pete1951]

My first 6” tricone to uke conversation seems to work fine. I have put it in a 3string thing I made a few years ago. It did have a Busker Uke cone in it ( that went into my Ultimate? travel guitar where it sounds underwhelming to say the least) The new system works very well and seems a little brighter than the uke cone. So I guess I now have to make a load of Reso- ukes
Pete

I think with a much larger more ‘open’ body a single 6” cone would make a useful travel guitar, we will see what turns up.

Uke cones have a flat area on top (to sit the biscuit on) this means the tri-cone conversations are taller and could not be used on most ukes without a deeper well or a very low saddle. I think an NRP 6” conversion might sound better than a standard Far Eastern cone, if you can get the saddle low enough. As cones are usually sold in sets of 3 there are probably quite a few pairs or singles out there after damage to 1or 2 while in a tricone, hopefully some other forum members will have a go at this.

[Michael Messer]

Dec 3, 2020 10:03:00 GMT pete1951 said:

My first 6” tricone to uke conversation seems to work fine. I have put it in a 3string thing I made a few years ago. It did have a Busker Uke cone in it ( that went into my Ultimate? travel guitar where it sounds underwhelming to say the least) The new system works very well and seems a little brighter than the uke cone. So I guess I now have to make a load of Reso- ukes
Pete

I think with a much larger more ‘open’ body a single 6” cone would make a useful travel guitar, we will see what turns up.

Uke cones have a flat area on top (to sit the biscuit on) this means the tri-cone conversations are taller and could not be used on most ukes without a deeper well or a very low saddle. I think an NRP 6” conversion might sound better than a standard Far Eastern cone, if you can get the saddle low enough. As cones are usually sold in sets of 3 there are probably quite a few pairs or singles out there after damage to 1or 2 while in a tricone, hopefully some other forum members will have a go at this.

From one of my favourite albums ... seems appropriate



Shine On
Michael

[pete1951]

The new biscuits are not too hard to make, with just a pillar drill and a few hand tools.


They are cut from an old maple board ( 20 years ago it was a college squash court floor). Though they look much thicker than the standard rosewood uke biscuit, they end up about the same weight because of the cone shaped hole.
Pete

It would be great if Michael could post short video to show how his cigar-box guitar sounds.

[bonzo]

Hi Pete. I've just picked up some tricone cones with the intention of using them in a cigar box project. Your earlier post showed how you fitted the biscuit, unfortunately I couldn't quite make out how you did it from the photo. Any chance you could post some more close ups and maybe a description please.

Best wishes to you all, John

[pete1951]

Ok, will post pics tomorrow.
PS.

[pete1951]

Here we go, the are at least 7 steps, I will be adding to this post and might not get them all on tonight,
Pete
1) Find the angle of the cone
.

This simple method works fine

2) grind or file a 38 or 40mm flat bit to match


3) drill the cone shaped hole in the wood you are using for the biscuit. (this is best done with a pillar drill)
The wood needs to be about 10-11mm thicket. My timber was 18mm, I drilled the hole deep and sanded off the surplus .



4)slot the biscuit, I did this by hand but if you have a router table it would be better . Saddles are usually around 2.5mm thick

5) shape the top of the biscuit to match the underside



6) put the saddle in the slot, as a rule of thumb the higher the saddle the more treble the cone ( or the less bass)


.

7) screw the biscuit to the cone. Mine sat very firmly. If it rocks, I would cover the cone with ‘cling-film’ and then put a thin bead of epoxy around the edge. The cling-film stops the biscuit sticking to the cone and the epoxy fills any gaps and give a good fit, you can work on the bridge without damaging the cone.

That’s about it
Pete

[bonzo]

Thanks Pete. 😊👍🎸