new to me: 1958 National 1133 - pickup question

[smnmy]

Hi all, new guy from London here!

I've dipped in an out of this forum and read stuff over the years, but only just joined properly. This week i quite unexpectedly lucked out on a guitar i've been after for a 15 years or so, the 1133. Maybe a bit of rust and play wear put people off?

I've got a bit of a thing for 50s Valco guitars to be honest, but i had pretty much given up on ever getting a 1133.

This photo was taken when i got the National Avalon from France in 2018. I expected to be my last big gtr purchase (bearing in mind brexit, tariffs, CITES and the ebay Global Shipping Programme):

Anyway I'm v happy and have been playing the 1133 in bad open G all week. I like the acoustic sound, but would also like to get some kind of transducer pickup, probably the type that goes on the biscuit. The Schatten NR-02 seems like the best one, but it's expensive - £113 in the UK. Is anybody else using one or something similar? Any other ideas? An Ashworth mini-bug was suggested to me, but they're not around anymore.

[Pickers Ditch]

Welcome - nice guitars!

I've been through this with my little 1133 and ended up going with a SM57 mic. out front cos I didn't want to risk messing up the guitar or the cone.

Enjoy it, they are really fun little guitars.

[pete1951]

A search through the treads will show that trying to fit a pickup that gives you a resonators tone comes up regularly. Most end with the recommendation of the Highlander system (at the moment these ,or a similar type are not available) and as PD says above,a Sure SM57 is the answer. I think your guitar also has the smaller than standard cone(?) which also makes for complications.
Good luck, and I hope you enjoy your guitar as an acoustic.
Pete

[Michael Messer]

Hello Simon,

Welcome to our forum.

1133s are wonderful little guitars and when set up properly they sound lovely. The 8 inch cone combined with the heavy solid body has a unique tone. Most of that tone goes out through the back into your jumper, but that's a minor detail!

I have been the proud owner of my 1133 for 33 years. Back when I first got it I used to gig with it, but those were the days before Highlander pickups existed, so eventually I gave in and just keep it as a home and recording instrument. As a rhythm guitar it records really well, especially if you can get a mic on the back of it, as well as on the front.

Back in those early days I tried everything and the only successful option, apart from a Highlander, is a magnetic type of pickup, something like the MM "Slim". I am not saying that to advertise it, just as an example. PD is correct that nothing can do what a microphone can do because the sound is projected out and is not heard on the inside, of which there is very little on these guitars.

I believe there are two options - (1) is to find a Highlander iP-1X Inline Resonator pickup. The company has just closed down, but these do turn up secondhand and they are by far the best natural sounding pickup that has ever been made for National-style resonator guitars. There is no reason why the 8 inch cone would cause any problems because the biscuit and bridge saddle are the same as regular 9.5" cones have. (2) The other option which I have seen done, is to conceal a magnetic pickup under the plastic pick-guard. A small amount of routing and a cleverly concealed jack socket would work and it would not deface the front of the instrument.

Bearing in mind that you have a few very nice electric instruments, if it were mine I would only consider a Highlander (NOTE: The Highlander iP-1X Inline pickup is designed to be used with a PA system or a high quality acoustic amp. It is totally useless plugged into a guitar amp). No magnetic pickup you fit to it would make it sound like your 1952 Ozark. I have the same guitar and it's a special one for sure. So my personal opinion is to leave it alone.

I hope that is helpful information.

Shine On
Michael

[Deleted]

Sept 26, 2020 7:07:31 GMT Pickers Ditch said:

Welcome - nice guitars!

I've been through this with my little 1133 and ended up going with a SM57 mic. out front cos I didn't want to risk messing up the guitar or the cone.

Enjoy it, they are really fun little guitars.

This is the definitive answer to the question 'what pickup should I put on a resonator guitar'

[smnmy]

Thanks both - and yes Pete the cone is only a bit over 8". It does not *need* a pickup, and i know that the reso tone can't be fully captured with one, but I'm a tinkerer

[edit - there were onky 2 answers when I posted this]

[smnmy]

Thanks for your very full answer Michael
Nothing will ever sound like my Ozark - the pickup on that is something else! - actually those gtrs all have the 'same' pickups but they have a lot of variety sound-wise. I don't want to do any major surgery at the moment, and I know I should just be happy with it as it, but will think about the Highlander as a longer term solution - I have seen some used units on Reverb.

[Michael Messer]

Simon, My pleasure.

I am aware of the pickups on your other guitars, but something about the Ozark makes it a special sounding instrument.

If you want to see some pictures of the 1133 dissected and all the components, I can send them to you. Let me know.

Shine On
Michael

[Deleted]

Here's a nice old National ready prepared for a pickup. LINK (Bangs head against wall)

[Noah Miller]

You might want to look into Sentell's NC-17 floating pickup. I had one on a Dobro at one point. Quite thin.

[smnmy]

Sept 28, 2020 14:23:50 GMT Noah Miller said:

You might want to look into Sentell's NC-17 floating pickup. I had one on a Dobro at one point. Quite thin.

Thanks Noah

I've looked at Sentell pickups in the past, he does have some interesting ideas!

I'll look into the NC-17. The Highlander would cost almost as much as the guitar, even if they were available.

[smnmy]

double post, sorry!