ride
MM Forum Member
Posts: 13
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Post by ride on Aug 30, 2019 11:12:54 GMT
Hi! Recently I bought an Amistar style 3 tricone, roundneck. It's an excellent guitar, sounds awesome. I play hawaiian style, so I installed an extension nut and changed strings to 16-56 (D'Addario) and tune it to Open G (low bass DGDGBD). The previous owner used to play it regular style. Since I bought the guitar, it keeps breaking strings all the time. Some strings just last for a few days. 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th strings where broken (2nd and 3rd several times each). 1st and 6th never were broken. All the strings break at the same point: at tailpiece. The ball-end of the string is torn from the string. Facts: - The strings are the same I use in another guitar, a spider squareneck dobro, with the same tuning.
- The previous owner told me he didn't break strings (I belive him). He played with lighter gauge (so less tension), in G and D tunings, even regular tuning.
- The strings are strung "over" the tailpiece.
I need your advise.
Thanks!
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Post by vastopol on Aug 30, 2019 11:58:49 GMT
By "Over" do you mean "Under"?...in this case you better fit your strings in the only right way for a resonator instrument, it may solve this kind of trouble.
(I'am very impressed by the quality of the engraving made in the Amistar Workshop, if you have enough time to send us some pictures, it could be nice to see...).
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Aug 30, 2019 12:12:34 GMT
Pictures of your stringing through/over/under the tailpiece would be useful.  |
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ride
MM Forum Member
Posts: 13
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Post by ride on Aug 30, 2019 12:39:17 GMT
By "Over" do you mean "Under"?...in this case you better fit your strings in the only right way for a resonator instrument, it may solve this kind of trouble. (I'am very impressed by the quality of the engraving made in the Amistar Workshop, if you have enough time to send us some pictures, it could be nice to see...). Hi! It's strung this way (I call this over the tailpiece  ) I'll try to post some pictures of it. The engraving it's awesome.  This is the rests of a ball end after breaking. The ball is cut in halves. The string is intact, not broken but with no ball (the "lace" at the end of the string is also intact)   Cheers! |
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Post by Michael Messer on Aug 30, 2019 13:17:36 GMT
Hello Ride,
I have four suggestions that you should consider, in no particular order. Without the guitar in my hands I can only offer calculated guesses.
1 - The string holders (key holes) in the tailpiece of your guitar might need opening up a little with a small metal file.
2 - 16/56 sets of strings are not designed to be used in low bass tunings. This is something I am often having to get across to people. The packet has "Resophonic" or "Resonator" guitar strings written on it, but when the gauges go from 16 to 56 it means they are designed for high bass G tuning - G B D G B D. When used on low bass tunings like D G D G B D and D A D F# A D, they are not pulling even tension across the set. D'Addario E42s for example are gauged 16, 18, 28, 35, 45, 56, which is just not right for anything other than high bass G. This all started when the Gibson company decided that the word "Dobro" was owned by them and unless it is being used as the word "good" in Slovak languages, that it was their property. So rather than fight such gibberish, companies now call their Dobro strings "resonator" strings. My advice would be to string your guitar with 15, 17, 26, 36, 46, 56
3 - Take a look at the break angle from tailpiece to bridge saddle.
4 - Take a look at the way the Amistar tailpiece is constructed. Is the raised ridge that the strings sit on, too high and causing problems.
If you don't think I am right about the possible causes of the breakages, please send more photos of break angles and close ups of the tailpiece key holes.
Shine On
Michael
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Post by leeophonic on Aug 30, 2019 18:43:40 GMT
I suspect the tailpiece, try another and then you will know, when it is off have a look under to see if there is a finish issue (jagged or mis cut slots).
As the submarine captain once said we will get to the bottom of it.....
Lee
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Post by bonzo on Aug 30, 2019 19:09:17 GMT
It's strange that the ball ends pop off leaving the strings intact. If it hadn't happened so often I would have thought a dodgy batch of strings. But the description suggests it's not actually the strings that are breaking, it's the ball ends pop off. Try and get hold of some Newtone MM's, we all use them and I can't recall any problems.
Best wishes to you all, John
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Post by bonzo on Aug 30, 2019 19:18:42 GMT
Follow up thought. There is a major difference in the way you are using the guitar compared to the previous owner. You've installed an extension nut! Other end of the guitar I know, but would affect the angle of the strings leaving the tailpiece. Try strings without using the riser and see how you get on. 😎👍👍
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ride
MM Forum Member
Posts: 13
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Post by ride on Sept 2, 2019 8:42:07 GMT
Hello Ride, I have four suggestions that you should consider, in no particular order. Without the guitar in my hands I can only offer calculated guesses. 1 - The string holders (key holes) in the tailpiece of your guitar might need opening up a little with a small metal file. 2 - 16/56 sets of strings are not designed to be used in low bass tunings. This is something I am often having to get across to people. The packet has "Resophonic" or "Resonator" guitar strings written on it, but when the gauges go from 16 to 56 it means they are designed for high bass G tuning - G B D G B D. When used on low bass tunings like D G D G B D and D A D F# A D, they are not pulling even tension across the set. D'Addario E42s for example are gauged 16, 18, 28, 35, 45, 56, which is just not right for anything other than high bass G. This all started when the Gibson company decided that the word "Dobro" was owned by them and unless it is being used as the word "good" in Slovak languages, that it was their property. So rather than fight such gibberish, companies now call their Dobro strings "resonator" strings. My advice would be to string your guitar with 15, 17, 26, 36, 46, 56 3 - Take a look at the break angle from tailpiece to bridge saddle. 4 - Take a look at the way the Amistar tailpiece is constructed. Is the raised ridge that the strings sit on, too high and causing problems. If you don't think I am right about the possible causes of the breakages, please send more photos of break angles and close ups of the tailpiece key holes. Shine On Michael Hi! Sorry, I've been out for the weekend. The string set I'm using is exactly D'Addario E42s resophonic (which I use in my "dobro" squareneck). The gauges you're suggesting are exact the same as in John Pearse's 13-56 except for the first string. I'll try them (but they're difficult to find here in Spain). I don't think the string holders are too tight or with rough edges, the previous owner had no problems. As bonzo suggested the extension nut may cause a change in the break angle. I'll try to post some photos. Never happen to me before, that the ball pops off leaving the string intact. First I also thought about a bad string batch but I changed 8-10 strings in a couple of months. All the same brand-gauges, but different batches. I can't change the tailpiece but I can try it without the extension nut for a few days. Thanks a lot! |
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Post by Michael Messer on Sept 2, 2019 8:49:46 GMT
The extension nut (nut raiser) will not affect the break angle, but it could possibly affect the general tension of the strings.
Let me know how it goes
Shine On
Michael
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Sept 2, 2019 9:05:54 GMT
I've been following this with interest.
If the ball ends are shearing through, my first thoughts are that the tension of the tuned string is too high for the geometric design / groove of the ball end and/or the material used for the ball end is too soft which allows the string to cut through.
My first suggestion would be to change the string manufacturer and see what happens, bearing in mind that a lot of strings are made by the same factory and just packaged in different packs with different names on them.
Try a set of Newtones of equivalent gauge, they tune at lower tension as they are round cored - I've never ever had a ball end breakage problem with them but I have with Martin monels of a lighter gauge.
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Post by Michael Messer on Sept 2, 2019 13:14:46 GMT
I still think the tailpiece is causing problems, but without the guitar in my hands I can only guess
Shine On
Michael
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Post by Tymus on Sept 2, 2019 14:23:00 GMT
Hi Ride,
Firstly I have never in over 40 years seen a ball end split in half! Then when I realised that you said they were D'Addario strings it made me think that it’s quite likely that there is nothing wrong with your guitar and that the problem is with the strings!
A while ago I noticed several posts on the web about D'Addario strings breaking, balls coming off, windings coming loose etc. It seems that the cause was D'Addario have become victims of the fakers, so my guess is that you have somehow fallen fowl of these fakers and bought some of their dodgy strings!
Search D'Addario's site and the web in general and you'll find information on this and also ways to tell if your strings are genuine or fake!
Cheers Tymus.
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Sept 2, 2019 14:54:17 GMT
Voila!
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ride
MM Forum Member
Posts: 13
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Post by ride on Sept 3, 2019 7:37:47 GMT
Hi! Hi Ride, Firstly I have never in over 40 years seen a ball end split in half! Then when I realised that you said they were D'Addario strings it made me think that it’s quite likely that there is nothing wrong with your guitar and that the problem is with the strings! A while ago I noticed several posts on the web about D'Addario strings breaking, balls coming off, windings coming loose etc. It seems that the cause was D'Addario have become victims of the fakers, so my guess is that you have somehow fallen fowl of these fakers and bought some of their dodgy strings! Search D'Addario's site and the web in general and you'll find information on this and also ways to tell if your strings are genuine or fake! Cheers Tymus. Voila! For me the strings seems legit but I'll check them carefully late at home. Thanks for the information. Here are some pictures I took trying to show the break angle. I don't know how to take better pics for showing the break angle  Attachment DeletedAttachment DeletedAttachment DeletedBtw, I tried to take photos of the fine engraving work Amistar did. Attachment DeletedAttachment DeletedAlmost imposible to get no reflections in the damn thing Attachment DeletedCheers! |
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