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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 21, 2019 19:53:02 GMT
I am not trying to be clever or pedantic, just getting what might become an interesting discussion going
I noticed that Pete1951 mentioned in a thread about his upcoming gig on Sunday, that they “also” play 'pub rock' classics. Seeing the names Pete listed as artists they cover - ELO, George Harrison, Eagles, Bad Company...etc, are all of course amazing artists, but are not names that I associate with a band also covering material from the genre I know of as Pub Rock.
I think of pub rock as an actual genre that started in the mid 1970s in Essex and then migrated into the London music pub scene. A close relation to British punk rock, people like Kilburn & the High Roads (Ian Dury), Ducks Deluxe, Joe Strummer, Dr Feelgood, Elvis Costello, Eddie & The Hot Rods, The Stranglers, all grew out of what I think of as 'pub rock'. Dingwalls, Dublin Castle, Sir George Robey, Hope & Anchor, Greyhound, are all venues that to me epitomise where London pub rock and also British punk rock was born.
I was around some of these pub rock/punk artists at that time in the mid to late 70s
Are we talking about the same type of music here?
Shine On
Michael
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Post by pete1951 on Feb 21, 2019 20:28:10 GMT
I always think of Stones stuff, Honky Tonk Woman etc, and maybe Blues Brothers stuff as Pub Rock staples, but I guess it’s a personal thing.
More lists of what is thought to be Pub Rock would be helpful.
Pete
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Post by richclough on Feb 21, 2019 22:11:05 GMT
I think of pub rock as rock music that will be known by most of the men and women in the pub I.e. It made tha charts at some point.
I suppose covers of songs by the Rolling Stones, The Kinks, Status Quo, Bowie, Bad Company, Mud, The Sweet, Slade, Dire Straits, The Police, Oasis, Foofighters, Nirvana, Eagles etc etc etc could all qualify.
It's as much about context as music. It needs to be played by middle aged, beer bellied, sweaty males (like me) on a Friday night in a pub* in a small town in England. The carpet must be sticky. The pub will smell of stale beer and cheap perfume. There will be an incredibly drunk woman who dances to everything and calls out for her favourite song between every number. The band don't know it.
There will be a fight at some point. Someone will dump someone else.
You know....pub rock!!!' 😄
* I used to live opposite this pub - the Slow and Easy, Northwich, Cheshire. Fondly known as the Low and Sleazy by its denizens.
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Feb 21, 2019 22:21:10 GMT
"Can you play Mustang Sally?" "Yeah, but not tonight!"  ....Rich got it dead right.  The Owl and Pussycat in Felixstowe was also known as The Hoot and Muff. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 22:27:09 GMT
MM's description of the genre known as 'pub rock' pretty much nails it.You could add Bees Make Honey,Meal Ticket,Kursaal Flyers,Graham Parker etc.etc. and the Bridge House in Canning Town,Cooks Ferry Inn,the Winning Post or the Kensington Then there is music that is played in pubs--at least the ones that haven't been adorned with flock wallpaper and renamed 'O'Neill's' or,worse,turned into a Costa Coffee. (Pass the sick bag Alice)! You have to move outside London to find decent music pubs these days.
'There will be an incredibly drunk woman who dances to everything and calls out for her favourite song between every number' Classic! And an incredibly drunk guy trying to get to know her better!
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 22, 2019 0:15:28 GMT
Rich, of course I get what you are saying and your description is very visual and poetic, but isn’t that just classic pop music being played by covers bands in pubs. I don’t have a genre name for it, but I have heard that called ‘Dad Rock’, which I dislike because it is somewhat insulting to the original artists and the people playing it, but to me makes more sense than calling it pub rock, which is an actual genre.
Shine On
Michael
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Post by Stevie on Feb 22, 2019 8:29:07 GMT
Good morning campers!
We are recognising two labels here that happen to share the same noun. Michael is correct about what we think of that emerged out of that 1970s scene. At the same time everyone knows what to expect when we go along to see old standards played in a pub. I've committed that felony too, and never felt comfortable with trotting out fairly poorly executed covers of rock "classics" in a pub. This often happens as a leveller for those of differing abilities to get together and play for (largely their own) enjoyment, and why not?
"What shall we do now then? "I've got one what I wrote here". Err yeah OK Fred..."Smoke on the Water" then everyone?" "Nah- "Alright Now" always goes down a treat".
In a way it's a little like a handicap scheme?
We are indeed blessed <with this language> <on this island> in so far as we are not restrained by literal restrictions and cope with such dualities of thought (and often spellings) with ease. It makes me proud to be English, yet I'm the last that anyone could conceive of as fascist. I certainly don't plaster my car with St. George flags and bumper stickers and such like. I don't feel the need, but there are those that do... I don't find the use of "Pub Rock" to be confusing nor a problem because I know what to expect in any given context, and I fancy the majority of English do too.
It must be hellish for TEFL students though!
e&oe...
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Post by creolian on Feb 22, 2019 9:07:25 GMT
Hello all,
New Orleans has a pub, bar, cocktail lounge, juke joint, hang and party crib for every individual in the city. To try and classify any one particular genre as pub rock is futile... although it does seem like whever I go, they're playing a song by a Brit band about Levees breaking...
On the + side, we do know what a pub is !
Cheers !
Jeff
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 22, 2019 9:23:17 GMT
Of course I understand what is being said and out of interest am sort of playing devil's advocate to see where folks stand on this subject.
I could also bring the Blues genre into the picture. Having spent my whole career pushing the boundaries and twisting up the blues, I now find myself asking why the British festival promoters call their festivals 'Blues Festivals'. They are not blues, rock, blues rock, pub rock, or any kind of blues. They are just festivals mostly promoting music that young people would not go to.
Genres indeed!
Shine On
Michael
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Post by bonzo on Feb 22, 2019 9:33:46 GMT
Pub rock = music that people would actually queue up outside a pub to hear!
Best wishes to you all, John
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Feb 22, 2019 9:35:16 GMT
There you go Michael...
"LADEEZ AND GENREMEN. WELCOME TO THE SHOW. TOOONITE WE HAVE FOR YOOO...."
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Post by Stevie on Feb 22, 2019 9:58:17 GMT
Queue up outside a pub? never!
The Black Swan at Ripley is / was known locally as The Mucky Duck, and the much missed Prince of Wales at Englefield Green was known as The Struggle. Because- it was a struggle to get in and a struggle to get out. There's loads more as everyone would agree, but it would end up as a list...
Another great British institution; the pub, as we know it/them. Fast becoming The Costa's Arms. I note with sadness that my beloved Fullers' Griffin Brewery has been sold to Asahi in Japan. That's the thin end of a slippery slope in my estimation.
Anyhoo- Pub Rock (sic).
e&oe...
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Post by bonzo on Feb 22, 2019 10:34:42 GMT
Don't forget the pubs closed in the afternoon, making the anticipation of a pint that much greater! Throw in a good band, factor in that it was warmer in the pub than at home you could probably cop off, so for the price of a couple of pints you had a great night out. The bands would get exposure, the Guv would be happy (even if he had to serve a bunch of hairy layabouts) win win win!
Happy days!
(The expression cop off is not meant to be offensive or sexist, we all enjoyed ourselves, boys and girls!)
Best wishes to you all, John
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Post by dunvettin on Feb 22, 2019 10:53:46 GMT
My favourite pub rock numbers are still the Billy Idol tunes - White Wedding and the other - can't think of title is it Midnight Hour ?? - has Rebel Yell in the lyrics - must be early Alzheimers!
I was a student in Central London in 1970s and was lucky enough to witness many bands. My favourite pub rock band was Sore Throat - the keyboard player dressed as an undertaker and the lead guitarist could perform Hendrix style riffs on a long guitar lead whilst being tossed in the air by adoring fans !! That was at the Stapleton Hall Tavern just down the road from where I then lived in Crouch End. As well as more famous venues like Dingwalls and Hope and Anchor We also used to attend the Sunday lunch time open jazz session in the Stapleton Hall Tavern with the resident Ignacious Quayle Trio - Iggy on piano, Coleridge Goode on double bass and Laurie Morgan on drums. Some big names as well as aspiring locals used to come and jam - happy days indeed and all for free.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2019 11:19:55 GMT
My favourite pub rock numbers are still the Billy Idol tunes - White Wedding and the other - can't think of title is it Midnight Hour ?? - has Rebel Yell in the lyrics - must be early Alzheimers! I was a student in Central London in 1970s and was lucky enough to witness many bands. My favourite pub rock band was Sore Throat - the keyboard player dressed as an undertaker and the lead guitarist could perform Hendrix style riffs on a long guitar lead whilst being tossed in the air by adoring fans !! That was at the Stapleton Hall Tavern just down the road from where I then lived in Crouch End. As well as more famous venues like Dingwalls and Hope and Anchor We also used to attend the Sunday lunch time open jazz session in the Stapleton Hall Tavern with the resident Ignacious Quayle Trio - Iggy on piano, Coleridge Goode on double bass and Laurie Morgan on drums. Some big names as well as aspiring locals used to come and jam - happy days indeed and all for free. Laurie Morgan is the history of British jazz drumming. He had a regular Sunday gig in the Kings Head in Crouch End--may well still have for all I know.I saw him there around eight years ago. Also saw Landscape regularly at the Stapleton. Perhaps we were neighbours in CE all those years ago dunvettin. You may even have operated on my girlfriend's cat if I'm correctly interpreting the source of your moniker! Anyway I diverse. |
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