|
Post by Michael Messer on Jul 2, 2009 14:53:42 GMT
Hi Roj,
I don't think anyone does those for resonator guitars. I don't think it would achieve much, but that is just a guess.
Shine On Michael.
|
|
|
Post by tark on Jul 2, 2009 16:18:12 GMT
If I remember correctly the idea behind contact core strings is that by stopping the winding just before the saddle the string flexibility is maximised just before the 'witness' point, therefore maximising sustain and brilliance. As I recall this idea is borrowed from piano strings.
There are several problems with it - 1. the core contact is only at one witness point, the other (the nut or fret) is left wound. 2. It is not possible for the string maker to know exactly the length of unwound core that must be left behind the saddle since this varies from guitar to guitar depending on how the strings are attached. 3. In my experience it noticeably screws up intonation.
Rotosound seem to have stopped making their contact core sets.
String breakage - In normal use strings are operating well within their elastic limit. Steel strings normally operate like springs - when tension is removed they return to their previous untensioned length. Contrary to popular belief new steel strings do not 'stretch' in. Any tuning instability with new strings is due to the wraps on the tuners and the attachment at the bridge tightening up under tuning tension. Tuning instability with new strings can be almost eliminated by ensuring the strings are fitted properly at the tuner and at the bridge. Strings break after the elastic limit is exceeded and the elastic limit can be considerably reduced if the string integrity is compromised by corrosion or by damage caused by sharp edges.
However when steel strings are bent the material on the outside of the bend is stretched and can easily be stretched beyond the elastic limit by a sharp bend. In fact ANY BEND at all that remains in the string after the bending force is removed, has pushed the material beyond its elastic limit. The sharpest bends occur at the tuners at the edge of the hole through the post. Even if this hole does not seem to have a sharp edge, stress on the string can be reduced by ensuring there is a good smooth bevel on the edge of this hole by countersinking it and then polishing the countersunk area to remove any roughness.
The winding on wound strings contributes very little to their strength almost all the tension is supported by the plain core wire. Some string manufacturing processes can leave the end of the string in a brittle or damaged condition leading to string breaks particularly on guitars that require a long length of string beyond the vibrating length so the tuner is winding up the very end of the string.
Using lubricants on a guitar, particularly mineral oil based lubricants intended for use on metals, in the long term can cause damage. Oils can seep behind finishes and cause them to lift and blister, glue bonds may be compromised and some oils cause wood to disintegrate. So I'd say lubricating a nut or a saddle with WD40 is not a good idea. Pure bees wax based furniture polish without any weird additives seems to be OK.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 18:06:36 GMT
Regarding Elixir strings...I used them for a while on my non resos, mostly because Richard Thompson does so I thought they must be good as he is often changing the tuning when he plays a set..
They cost almost double a set of of Newtones. They sound a little brighter but the 3rd string would frequently snap at the bridge saddle. This was nothing to do with the guitar as it was then a 3 week old hand built Fylde Custom Goodfellow with a cutaway. I sold my favourite coal fired miniature steam loco to pay for it.
Anyway, after about a year I gave up and now use Newtone Masterclass on that and MM reso strings on anything that I attack with a slide in open tuning. I find Newtones go off in tone and pitch holding after almost exactly 70 days. 10 weeks, and almost to the day. But they are very good value and I would now go for nothing else.
I suspect R T gets a special batch of Elixir strings as I have only seen 1 snap when I've been to his concerts.
|
|
|
Post by thebluesbear( al) on Jul 2, 2009 18:47:08 GMT
Hi
i used daddario for about 15 years and found them fine for my electric work, but not what i was looking for for my accoustic playing
a good pal of mine uses elixer on his resos , i tried it and it just didnt do anything
now on all guitars its strictly newtone i order from strings direct and they are with me inside 3 days
al
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2009 1:28:45 GMT
Hey guys
Glad to see my thread rolling along nicely! Thanks for all your input, especially Tark (your reply to my nylon string ramblings was a useful clarification, I tend to write on here in the small hours, not really the best for clear thinking).
I've just remembered this video of one of the greatest guitarists out there talking strings
interesting to get yet another point of view
LR
|
|
|
Post by steverino on Jul 3, 2009 1:35:44 GMT
Barry you mentioned a snapping third string. I started a thread on another forum recently after experimenting with some home made plain wire third strings. I'm sold on them. I now believe that string makers use a wound third mostly to ease the transition between the bright, clear, beautiful sounding plain wire strings and the duller sounding wound strings. On the fairly light gauge Martin Silk & Steel sets, the core wire on the wound third string is only .011". It is probably pulled up within an inch of its life, and so more prone to failure. A steel fingerpick will tear through the delicate winding quickly as well. A .022" plain wire sounds better, plays easily and also allows for much easier note bending.
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Jul 3, 2009 6:33:36 GMT
Hi Steverino,
I am not sure that I agree with your comments about plain or wound G/3rd strings. I have never had any problems with wound third strings. I must have used thousands of them.
Plain G - It is a personal taste thing. Some people like 'em and some don't. I don't even use plain Gs on my electrics. My playing, especially in open G tuning, relies on a wound third to get the tone I like. As a slide player I am not looking for a bendy G string. Each to their own.
I will ask Malcolm Newton (Newtone Strings) about your comments on G strings, I am sure he will know more than we do.
shine On Michael.
|
|
|
Post by andys on Jul 3, 2009 11:41:58 GMT
I use wound G strings on two of my electrics, a LP Jnr style with a hot humbucker, and my esquired Affinity tele. I like the richer tone that it gives on those two guitars. But my other teles have plain Gs whatever gauge I am using, because I just love the twang that a plain G gives on a telecaster.
I do really like the heavy plain G in the 13-52 Electric Slide Classics, by Newtone. I think that that particular set is a great one for electric slide playing and the G in that set is heavy enough to be similar in feel and tone to a wound one IMO. Yet it still twangs when you need it.
|
|
|
Post by tark on Jul 3, 2009 12:01:02 GMT
As far as I know the decision to transition to a wound string in a set is based on how much string stiffness will affect intonation and harmonic purity. A 0.022 plain string will be quite a bit stiffer than an equivalent wound string. According to the D'Addario tension chart a plain 0.022 tuned to g is tensioned at 27.7lbs a PB wound 0.022 is at 25.5lbs.
|
|
|
Post by steverino on Jul 3, 2009 16:40:50 GMT
As with so many things, I suppose the choice of third string boils down to personal preference. I made up some plain wire thirds after a friend mentioned that he frequently broke the wrapping on the third string of his favorite Martin Silk & Steel sets when using a metal fingerpick. When it happened to me I decided to try some plain wire.
Tark I guess "stiffness" depends on one's perspective as well. A .022" plain wire calculates about the same tension as the .023" wound third in the Martin set, 26.67 lbs. vs. 26.87 lbs. The plain wire is only at something like 25% of breaking tension, where the .011" core wire of the Martin wound third must be much closer. The plain wire can be bent more than two semitones, allowing for Robert Johnson style note bends. It is difficult to bend the wound string even a semitone, which makes it feel stiffer to me in use.
|
|
|
Post by Gerry C on Jul 7, 2009 13:53:19 GMT
I tried a plain G once - thought it sounded like a scaffolding pole falling over...
Michael, I just today put a set of 13s on my MML and cranked it up to Open A. WHOOOOO-HOOOOO!! If possible it sounds even better than it did in Open G!! I've played it for about an hour and as yet no sign of cone collapse... Might have another hell of a sumpin' here!
Cheerily,
Gerry C
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Jul 7, 2009 14:15:23 GMT
Hi Gerry, Another hell of a somethin....!!!! COOL I am sure you can leave you guitar in open A and not have any problems. I love playing my MM guitars in open E and A tunings. Shine On Michael.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2009 14:59:09 GMT
Hi
I have never had a 3rd break on any guitar until the Elixirs. I have had my old Fylde since 1979 and used all the usual USA produced p/b strings and no snapping ever. No snaps now with Newtone strings so I am convinced that it is the Elixir treatment that causes fatigue in the very thin core of the wound third.
I've gone on about this on another thread some while ago so wont say any more.
Cheers
|
|
|
Post by tark on Jul 9, 2009 1:09:35 GMT
Hi I have never had a 3rd break on any guitar until the Elixirs. I have had my old Fylde since 1979 and used all the usual USA produced p/b strings and no snapping ever. No snaps now with Newtone strings so I am convinced that it is the Elixir treatment that causes fatigue in the very thin core of the wound third. I've gone on about this on another thread some while ago so wont say any more. Cheers I think Elixir apply heat to the string to make their Gortex film stick to the surface. It seems to be that on the thin wound third this is sufficient to change the temper of the end of the string, particularly where the core wire is exposed. I have noticed this is very brittle on several Elixir thirds and I have had a couple snap on me. I returned them to Elixir in the post and they sent me replacement strings.
|
|
|
Post by bluesdude on Jul 9, 2009 1:56:42 GMT
;DI had G strings snap years ago,thats why I went to a plain G(24) to be exact,I prefer the sound it gives also, most people say its dead sounding,but I don't find that the case! I do bend it quit a bit,but even sliding up to the twelve fret to me sounds so much better with it, but I find its better suited to tuning up to at least D# to work right tough,
Kenny
|
|