Post by snakehips on Nov 23, 2012 13:45:54 GMT
Hi there !
I'd like to respectfully disagree with what MM has said about Muddy Waters' slide playing in regular/standard tuning - mainly the assumption that he switched to standard tuning LATER on in his career and/or that his "classic" Chess recordings were all in open tuning (ie. Open G).
I feel that statements like this tend to perpetuate the myth and confuse those trying to learn Muddy Waters' guitar styles (as sometimes it can be difficult deciding what tuning someone is in, when trying to learn it off a record/CD/mp3 etc). Finding help from the Internet is great (it wasn't around when I was trying to learn how to play Muddy Waters and Elmore James !) - but if misleading information like this is left unchallanged (respectfully) then these poor learner guitarists are gonna get hell of a confused out there !
The facts speak for themselves.
I need to find time to check his Library of Congress recording - I don't remember if all that is played in Open G or not - so I'll not comment on that very early period - I expect it is almost all Open G though.
His 1946 recordings for Columbia were his "foot in the door" to recording commercially, backing Sunnyland Slim on guitar - but he also got to record some tracks under his own name (and being the singer).
I'd need to check but I think all (or at least most) of these tunes are played in regular tuning (although I don't think he played slide on any of these tunes).
It at least shows that standard/regular tuning was of no mystery to Muddy BEFORE the Aristocrat/Chess label even ever existed.
Depends what MM means by Muddy's "classic" Chess recordings - as I'm sure we have our own minds made up on what era of his Chess recordings we consider as classic, or not.
True, his EARLIEST recordings for Leonard Chess for the Aristocrat label seem to be all (or mostly ?) in Open G - BUT pretty soon he was playing many slide numbers (eg. January 1951, for "Long Distance Call" and "Honey Bee"), as well as non-slide numbers (eg. "Rollin' Stone" earlier, in February 1950) - in standard tuning.
I personally consider Muddy's 1949-1955 recordings as his best period - for various reasons (some of which is because they include Little Walter and Jimmy Rodgers, then from 1953 onwards because they feature Otis Spann on piano) - but there is some "CLASSIC" slide playing in regular tuning in this period - especially 1950-1953.
Muddy didn't need to play guitar as much when Otis Spann arrived on the scene to thicken the soup, so to speak.
On my point of Little Walter and Jimmy Rodgers being recorded with Muddy on Chess recordings. Leonard Chess refused to record Muddy with his full band up until about 1951 - when, co-incidence or not, his standard-tuning slide playing first appears. Chess felt that his solo / duo (with Big Crawford on double bass) / trio (with Little Walter on harmonica) was a great formula for selling records - and he didn't want to mess with that. Muddy was frustrated with Chess because he wanted to record his whole band he was gigging with.
It seems highly plausible because of this, that Muddy was already gigging with his slide in regular tuning - as his first recordings of slide in regular tuning are FANTASTIC already. I don't think he had just taken it up !
Perhaps, in a solo/duo/trio setting, of him being the main instrument, he felt that he could provide a fuller/fatter sound in Open G - with (near) full chord slide phrases. More difficult to do that in regular tuning. But with another guitarist on recordings (ie. Jimmy Rodgers) Muddy could play slide freely in regular tuning on the high strings while Jimmy plays the backing bass riffs. Muddy could play those backing cool bass riffs too - BUT not at the same time as high up the neck with a slide.
Reason enough, I think, to refute the idea that he was late to learn slide in regular tuning.
Sure, it looks like he (mostly) gave up slide in Open G around this time - but again, this is perhaps more because he had a band to play more behind him. And anyway, his live gig audiences were probably beginning to expect/want something a bit more forward-looking ("uptown" !).
I think Muddy knew that his "thing" was considered cool - but I think he also felt embarassed around other guitar players as he knew he wasn't so versatile or good at other styles. Did that matter ? Hell, no ! His "thing" was more than enough to ensure he was always gonna be considered great for eternity.
And anyway, it wasn't just his guitar playing that was great - he was a great singer too - and damn cool at it too ! Lots of other great blues singers don't really have it cool/hip like he did.
Even my other all-time favourite, Elmore James, I don't consider as being "cool". Awesome, brilliant, but not cool like Muddy Waters (sorry Elmore !). Muddy had cool in spades though.
I think the reasoning for my post has been well explained and justified - but I'd still like to note again that I'm trying to be respectful here. I do remember though that this topic has been discussed before, a good few years back, with the same innaccurate/misleading information passed on as fact. I just felt that someone had to point out the more realistic facts.
Why do I seem so sure ? Well, I spent way too much of my 8 yrs at Uni listening to and trying to learn Muddy Waters early 50's guitar style - when I should have been studying to be a Dentist. I feel I delved in really deep into this style - and learnt a lot about it. I don't think I know it all - but I know enough to back up my claims !
In short, I believe Muddy could play slide in regular tuning well enough to have recorded at Aristocrat in standard tuning slide, had he been allowed to record with his full band. Perhaps though, we would never heard nearly as much of his early Aristocrat open G stuff !!!
Maybe Leonard Chess did know what he was doing after all !!! ?
I'd like to respectfully disagree with what MM has said about Muddy Waters' slide playing in regular/standard tuning - mainly the assumption that he switched to standard tuning LATER on in his career and/or that his "classic" Chess recordings were all in open tuning (ie. Open G).
I feel that statements like this tend to perpetuate the myth and confuse those trying to learn Muddy Waters' guitar styles (as sometimes it can be difficult deciding what tuning someone is in, when trying to learn it off a record/CD/mp3 etc). Finding help from the Internet is great (it wasn't around when I was trying to learn how to play Muddy Waters and Elmore James !) - but if misleading information like this is left unchallanged (respectfully) then these poor learner guitarists are gonna get hell of a confused out there !
The facts speak for themselves.
I need to find time to check his Library of Congress recording - I don't remember if all that is played in Open G or not - so I'll not comment on that very early period - I expect it is almost all Open G though.
His 1946 recordings for Columbia were his "foot in the door" to recording commercially, backing Sunnyland Slim on guitar - but he also got to record some tracks under his own name (and being the singer).
I'd need to check but I think all (or at least most) of these tunes are played in regular tuning (although I don't think he played slide on any of these tunes).
It at least shows that standard/regular tuning was of no mystery to Muddy BEFORE the Aristocrat/Chess label even ever existed.
Depends what MM means by Muddy's "classic" Chess recordings - as I'm sure we have our own minds made up on what era of his Chess recordings we consider as classic, or not.
True, his EARLIEST recordings for Leonard Chess for the Aristocrat label seem to be all (or mostly ?) in Open G - BUT pretty soon he was playing many slide numbers (eg. January 1951, for "Long Distance Call" and "Honey Bee"), as well as non-slide numbers (eg. "Rollin' Stone" earlier, in February 1950) - in standard tuning.
I personally consider Muddy's 1949-1955 recordings as his best period - for various reasons (some of which is because they include Little Walter and Jimmy Rodgers, then from 1953 onwards because they feature Otis Spann on piano) - but there is some "CLASSIC" slide playing in regular tuning in this period - especially 1950-1953.
Muddy didn't need to play guitar as much when Otis Spann arrived on the scene to thicken the soup, so to speak.
On my point of Little Walter and Jimmy Rodgers being recorded with Muddy on Chess recordings. Leonard Chess refused to record Muddy with his full band up until about 1951 - when, co-incidence or not, his standard-tuning slide playing first appears. Chess felt that his solo / duo (with Big Crawford on double bass) / trio (with Little Walter on harmonica) was a great formula for selling records - and he didn't want to mess with that. Muddy was frustrated with Chess because he wanted to record his whole band he was gigging with.
It seems highly plausible because of this, that Muddy was already gigging with his slide in regular tuning - as his first recordings of slide in regular tuning are FANTASTIC already. I don't think he had just taken it up !
Perhaps, in a solo/duo/trio setting, of him being the main instrument, he felt that he could provide a fuller/fatter sound in Open G - with (near) full chord slide phrases. More difficult to do that in regular tuning. But with another guitarist on recordings (ie. Jimmy Rodgers) Muddy could play slide freely in regular tuning on the high strings while Jimmy plays the backing bass riffs. Muddy could play those backing cool bass riffs too - BUT not at the same time as high up the neck with a slide.
Reason enough, I think, to refute the idea that he was late to learn slide in regular tuning.
Sure, it looks like he (mostly) gave up slide in Open G around this time - but again, this is perhaps more because he had a band to play more behind him. And anyway, his live gig audiences were probably beginning to expect/want something a bit more forward-looking ("uptown" !).
I think Muddy knew that his "thing" was considered cool - but I think he also felt embarassed around other guitar players as he knew he wasn't so versatile or good at other styles. Did that matter ? Hell, no ! His "thing" was more than enough to ensure he was always gonna be considered great for eternity.
And anyway, it wasn't just his guitar playing that was great - he was a great singer too - and damn cool at it too ! Lots of other great blues singers don't really have it cool/hip like he did.
Even my other all-time favourite, Elmore James, I don't consider as being "cool". Awesome, brilliant, but not cool like Muddy Waters (sorry Elmore !). Muddy had cool in spades though.
I think the reasoning for my post has been well explained and justified - but I'd still like to note again that I'm trying to be respectful here. I do remember though that this topic has been discussed before, a good few years back, with the same innaccurate/misleading information passed on as fact. I just felt that someone had to point out the more realistic facts.
Why do I seem so sure ? Well, I spent way too much of my 8 yrs at Uni listening to and trying to learn Muddy Waters early 50's guitar style - when I should have been studying to be a Dentist. I feel I delved in really deep into this style - and learnt a lot about it. I don't think I know it all - but I know enough to back up my claims !
In short, I believe Muddy could play slide in regular tuning well enough to have recorded at Aristocrat in standard tuning slide, had he been allowed to record with his full band. Perhaps though, we would never heard nearly as much of his early Aristocrat open G stuff !!!
Maybe Leonard Chess did know what he was doing after all !!! ?