First reso advice.

[stevensguitars]

Hi there, new so the forum so hello to you all.

I'm in the market for a resonator guitar. I build electric guitars in Bristol but don't quite think I'm up to a reso!

I'm in the market for an early tricone but until I find one, I want to get a lower priced alternative.

So far my choices are the MM lightning, Busker Tricone and the Republic models.

I hear great things about all of them and there are things I like and dislike about each of them. I haven't been able to try any of them so sadly it's down to sound clips and videos.

The Lightning sounds great on youtube vids, especially one where a guy has fitted a national cone and demos it after a 30's National.



I like this guitar but the etching may be a bit flash for my taste, I also don't really like the text on the headstock. Similarly I like the Busker Tricone but feel that the stick on logo disc makes it look a bit cheap. I love the Republic decal - really taps into the vibe of the national logo. I know these are small issues but they do matter!

The Republic is probably out for having ti import it. So between the Lightning and Busker guitar. I hear a lot said about the spec that Michael Messer has put on his guitars. What exactly does this break down as and how, if at all, does it differ to the Busker models?

And for those that have these and Nationals, how much of a difference is there. Is the cost difference just down to cheap chinese labour or is there some magic going on with the Nationals? IS it worth upgrading the cones?

Answers to any of these questions will be much appreciated.

And hopefully I'll end up with a (very!) shiny new guitar.

Cheers

Dave

[stevensguitars]

I forgot to say, I'm not a blues aficionado - I used to play in Indie/rock bands with a Tele and Les Paul through a Marshall Jubilee stack.

Now I mostly play my Baby Taylor, Taylor 210 and a Stella H929 that I'm restoring. Mostly fingerpicking and I have an old friend who's been teaching me slide. It's like learning all over again! The hardest part I find is trying to do the regimented alternating bass picking with the thumb. But I'm spending happy hours just playing the intro to Vigilante man over and over again!

[slidenpickit]

Hi Dave,
You probably know already but the Lightning is not a tricone it's a single cone so would sound different to the Busker tricone anyway. The metal Busker logo can easily be removed by warming it up (with a soldering iron?) and knocking it off. But, Robin might just sel you one with it not fitted. NRPs are very nice top quality instruments and you do get what you pay for. Whether they are worth paying 5 times the price for (new) is another matter. The MM and Busker guitars are the best you will get for the money. I personally have had both and wouldn't bother upgrading cones etc.

[stevensguitars]

Thanks Chris, yeah i know about the difference in style and sound - i've had my nose locked in Bob Brozman's book for the last few weeks!

Perhaps I should have asked how the design of the Lightning differs to say the Busker sidewalk (12 or 14 fret models), what influence has Michael had on the Lightning that isn't there on the Busker models. Basically, is the lightning a better, or more sophisticated instrument?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Cheers

Dave

[Deleted]

Hi Dave
The lightning only comes in 12 fret, but would sound fairly similar to the sidewalk. Otherwise, busker and MM guitars are "made by similar people, with similar people doing QC" if that makes sense!
I would say don't risk a republic over a MM - the QC is almost non existent, unless you feel like putting your skills to putting one right (which you probably could do with a bit of practice).
TT

[slidenpickit]

Hi Dave,
There's a whole history of the development of MM guitars on this website so this thread may end up being moved to 'Main Street'. I'm sure all of your questions would be answered there. Basically, MM has designed his models from the ground up and has very strict QC (as does Busker) as Deuce says. The same guy does the set ups for both MM and Busker guitars in the same workshop. The quality of all of the range is excellent. I think there have been a few model changes so that the two brands don't clash in the types of resonator being offered. You can be assured of the getting the best for your money. It's more of a question of the difficult (and pleasurable) task of choosing the one that you like best. If you live in Bristol you could visit Busker in Wales and try them all!

[wolvoboy]

Hi Dave
a lot of the forum members have both as do, i ihave a MM Blues and a 31 Duolian,its Difficult to compare them and i think a little unfair the Duolian is 80 years old and has had all that time to mature and not only that no two sound the same, and the New Nationals are four times the price of an MM Blues,personally i would put the MM somewhere in between the two soundwise,i did have a choice when i bought my MM Blues of having a New National Resophonic but i chose the blues as i thought there was not a lot in it soundwise,and also i tthink better value for my money,there is no doubt about it they great guitars,who knows what they will sound like in 80 years time
wolvoboy

[Michael Messer]

Hello Dave,

Welcome to our forum.

Thank you for your interest in MM Guitars, and thanks to Deuce, Chris and Wolvoboy for your supportive words. Always much appreciated.

I will do my best to advise you…..

I cannot answer all of your questions because I am not prepared to criticise other manufacturers, or compare my guitars to theirs. As a guitar maker yourself, I am sure you will understand my comments……

These days there are dozens of brands of budget-priced resonator guitars on the market, but ours are the only ones that were designed by players for players, and are sold by players to players. All the others are designed and sold by business people who are in the market to sell shiny guitars to make money. Sure, we are in this to make a living, but that was not our reason for setting this up in the first place. Our guitars were designed to be as faithful to the real thing, a 1930s National, as possible within a certain price range.

Robin and I originally set this up, not as a business proposition, but to see if it was possible to do what National did in the 1930s depression era, which was to build superb resophonic guitars in large quantities with cheap materials and sell them at affordable prices to players. To achieve this, Robin & I have spent more time than anyone would realise, discussing, designing and perfecting our guitars. As well as my own knowledge, that I have gathered through more than 35 years of collecting, playing and reviewing resophonic guitars, I have been helped and advised by some of my closest friends, who also happen to be among the leading experts in the world on the subjects of building, designing, collecting and playing vintage National and modern National-style resophonic guitars. This was all done with the specific remit of making the best possible resophonic guitar, and making it available at a realistic and affordable price. I did research the idea of producing them in the UK, but no matter which way I tried to slice it, I could not produce guitars of this quality in the West without selling them for four or five times the price we sell them for.

When I visited our workshops, which are very small workshops with only three or four people building instruments, I was the first person in over twenty years of them building resophonic guitars, that had ever visited them from the West. In addition, I spend hours talking on Skype with them about every detail of every shipment of guitars. Having my name on the headstock means that I really do care about every single guitar that is sold and I am happy to communicate with every owner, whether it is to advise them about adjusting the set-up of their guitar, or just to help with their playing.

We have now been doing this as MM & Busker guitars for nearly four years and in that time Robin has set up and worked on every single guitar. This now amounts to many hundreds of guitars and has given Robin almost unsurpassed experience in this area. When a Busker or MM guitar leaves Robin's workshop, I would be happy for it to be placed in anybody's hands for scrutiny.

As a guitar maker who brands your custom built Telecasters with your own name 'Stevens' on the headstock, I am surprised to read your comments about our logos on the headstocks. My guitars are branded with my name, just as Fender, Gibson, Martin, Taylor and Stevens guitars are branded with theirs. I am sorry that you don't like the MM and Busker logos, but I would look beyond that if I were you.

The Lightning design has been very popular and is one of the factors, apart from the sound and playability, that draw people to these instruments. It is a classic early National design and is totally in keeping with everything that I have put into MM guitars. It is a personal taste thing and I guess that if the Lightning design is too flashy for you, you maybe should consider an MM Blues, or a plain finish Busker or Republic guitar. If the Republic decal is appealing to you, then maybe that is what you should get. These guitars are manufactured by the same network of workshops, but the specs and quality control are different to ours. It is a bit like Marks & Spencer and the way they control the production of food products produced with their logo on. They are made in the same factory, but not to the same specifications. There are many threads on this forum that discuss the differences in MM, Busker and Republic, that you should read. The most comprehensive is probably the big thread called 'Michael Messer Resonator Guitars' > michaelmesser.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=advertizing&action=display&thread=1379

There have been many reviews by guitar experts in glossy magazines and MM guitar owners, that will give you a good idea of what they are like. You should read the reviews on my website….
www.michaelmesser.co.uk/MICHAEL%20MESSER%20RESONATOR%20GUITARS.htm

I do not believe that upgrading the resonator (cone) to a National Hot Rod makes enough difference to worry about. The sound of a guitar is the sum total of all the components working together. Our cones are hand spun and as well as being very good quality, they sound great in our guitars and in all the tests I have done, I am happy with their performance. As well as the obvious comparison tests, I have put them in 1920s and 30s Nationals to compare them with the real thing, and they sound great. So I would not worry about that issue.

Each guitar has two set-ups and quality control inspections before it goes out to a customer. The first is in our workshop in China, and the second is in our workshop in Wales. The set-up in Wales by Robin is not done to a clock and the guitar is only ready to ship to a customer when it is as close to perfect as possible. I do not believe any other company selling budget-priced resonator guitars can offer this level of service and finished quality.

I hope I have helped and answered some of your questions.

To round off....here is a short slideshow and soundclips....



Thanks and best wishes,

Shine On
Michael.

[slide496]

I wish you had a distribution deal in the US. I don't think there is any question that what you've produced is a quality musical instrument that is designed and constructed with your unique knowledge of these resonators and set up to play music.

Personally I like your headstock. The waterslide decals on the republics are delicate - or at least mine are. I like them as well though. I also like the mm on the coverplate.

[Michael Messer]

Thank you Harriet. I too hope to set up US distribution at some point. The difficulty with setting something like this up, is maintaining our approach to quality control and customer service without actually being there. We are currently working on getting even stricter quality control in place in China, so we can ship direct from there to other countries and be sure of the quality of the product.

I 'think' that the Republic waterslide decals are put on in the US. Waterslides are little devils and from the experience I have had, it is important to get very good quality ones. It takes a long time for them to bed in and fuse themselves to the wood. I had some made a while ago for some tests I was doing, these were handmade screen-printed waterslides, and they are on nice thick backing that won't tear easily.

Shine On
Michael

[slide496]

I look forward to it, there is a significant difference in the quality in tone from the way you and Robin have coordinated the build and set up, and I am sure that you would not be comfortable at all with putting your name on a musical instrument that did not meet your standards.

[stevensguitars]

Hi Michael,

Good to hear from you, I really appreciate you taking the time to post and it's great to hear the history of your venture with Robin.

Firstly I should say that I apologise if I offended you with my comments about the logos, it's only a small thing and it's totally personal preference. What I do really like is the MM in a diamond within a rectangle that sits on the cover plate, that really is a great piece of design and would look great on a headstock, maybe with a lightning bolt through it? Anyway, they're your guitars and I wouldn't dream of telling you what to do!

When I commented on the lighting being flashy I really meant that people might actually expect me to be able to play the blues on an instrument with such a bling factor I do like the lightning design. Any plans to do an exploding palms design?

Thank you for all the comments regarding the build quality, quality control and the quality of the cone you use. All very helpful.

And I understand about the impossibility of building anything in this country for that price, materials alone would cost nearly that and I've been asked a few times to do a bulk order of Telecasters under someone else's brand for a similar retail price, it just can't be done and make a profit.

So don't get me wrong - I'm in the market and the Lightning is top of my list at the moment (until I find that 1928 Tricone that is!).

Can I ask what the finish is on the neck?

And what tuners are you currently using. I'd prefer an open gear vintage style set. If you don't supply with those do you have any experience of what brands fit the Lightning? The Golden Age Restoration tuners would certainly look the part at a fairly low price.

Thanks to Michael and everyone else for all the input. Seems like a very nice friendly forum!

Cheers

Dave

[Michael Messer]

Hi Dave,

It is my pleasure to welcome new forum members and to answer questions about MM Guitars.

We do have a friendly forum that I hope is more than an online chartroom, it is a real community of like-minded people who come together on here to discuss and share knowledge about our passion for music and instruments.

You had no need to apologise about your previous message, but I thank you for your apology. The whole idea of a forum is to be able to have open and honest discussions.

I have been around so many shiny Nationals and MM guitars in the past 35 years that I don't really see the bling factor at all. But I do remember when I got my first shiny resophonic guitar, a brand new Dobro 33H, that I was conscious of its visual effect on people around me. For me in my early twenties at the time, that was part of the attraction.

I have no plans at present to do an Exploding Palm Tree design, but who knows what the future will bring.

The finish on the neck is a matt poly...varnish. We are currently waiting for a sample of a natural tree-sap varnish that has has been used in Chinese instrument making for a very long time. Apparently it is beautiful and very tough. We are always looking at ways to improve what we do, just as National did in the 20s and 30s, there is always something to improve and try.

We currently use the Stewmac Golden Age tuners on our guitars, but we have some new tuners coming on the next shipment of guitars.

I hope I have answered all your questions - if you have any more, please don't hesitate to ask.

Shine On
Michael.

[stevensguitars]

Thanks Michael,

I'd be interested to hear more about the tree-sap varnish that you mention. The finishes I use are nitro and Tru-oil. Nitro is obviously fairly time consuming and relatively fragile but can be easily repaired. My preference at the moment is Tru-oil, incredibly easy to apply and achieve a great finish. Looks and feels great matte and can be polished without having the squeaky feel of nitro.

I've been in touch with Robin and he says the next delivery will be in July so I'll check back with him nearer the time.

Thanks for the help Michael.

Cheers
Dave

[Deleted]

Hello
I used this stuff on my neck. - lovely stuff! I wish I'd used it on my body too.
TT

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