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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 18, 2020 14:49:04 GMT
Does anyone know about the one guitar that we did make together. Long before either of us knew about China and manufacturing guitars there; in 2001 my record company, Catfish Records, me and Franta did a deal to produce a one-off custom brass bodied "Michael Messer King Guitar". It was used in an advertising campaign to promote my album and Amistar guitars. The guitar was the first prize in a competition. It is a beautiful piece with the words "The World Turns To King Guitar" and "Michael Messer - King Guitar" engraved on the body. Somewhere I have a couple of photos, i'll see if I can find them. If the guitar ever turns up for sale, let me know.
Franta was a great man, but he just couldn't accept what was happening in China and that they were building great guitars. His business suffered because people like me were able to undercut Amistar's prices dramatically and to produce instruments that were just as good. It was the writing on the wall and he just refused to accept it. As I said, I tried to do a deal with him which would have been amazing for both of us, but he refused to deal with anyone from China.
The newsreel is great and shows how important the Dopyera name is in the Czech Republic and Slovakia. John Dopyera is one of Slovakia's most celebrated people.
Shine On Michael
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Post by bluesnut on Dec 18, 2020 15:14:09 GMT
Aloha Michael,
Please post a pic of the King Guitar.
Brian
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Post by tokyo on Dec 18, 2020 21:02:15 GMT
peaking of Continental guitars" Ahem Cough Cough" heres one not the one your looking for though these are both recent additions to the tokyo household the Continental I traded for a quality but not for me accoustic that has never been out the case in 3 years Iam happy the other guys happy as he found it to be too heavy for him,The Recording king came up for sale and I was sent an alert via f/b market place only 4 miles from me went to see it dusty, chipped nut, rusty old mismatched strings, no trussrod cover, and enough pet hair and fluff to make a new cat in the cone well !,Worked on it a bit and its a nice change to play a 14f and its good sounds nice I think its a bargain for 180uk.
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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 19, 2020 10:38:29 GMT
Aloha Michael, Please post a pic of the King Guitar. Brian Brian, I will post a photo or two when I can find them. For some reason that I forget now, it was not properly documented and photographed, but I do have a few pics somewhere. There was also an event at a venue in London where I presented the winner with the guitar and played a few tunes on it. I wish I had more information about the winner, but I don't. I do remember saying to him that if he ever decided to sell the guitar, that he should contact me. It was a very busy time in my life, the King Guitar album was a big success and I was running at full speed. It was just one of many things I did that week. Someday it may be owned by me or one of my descendants. Shine On Michael
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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 19, 2020 12:23:40 GMT
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Post by bonzo on Dec 19, 2020 12:59:23 GMT
Fabulous. Can't believe this has gone unoticed for all these years!
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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 19, 2020 13:42:03 GMT
Fabulous. Can't believe this has gone unoticed for all these years! John, I can only assume that the owner still has it and has not told anyone, or shared photos of it. It certainly is a beautiful piece. From my point of view - I see it differently now to how I did twenty years ago. At the time it was just one of many promotional tools we were using to sell my album. It came and went, and since then hasn't been thought about by me or anyone else. I hope the owner is enjoying it. This is all typical of how such instruments have turned up over the decades. The Harry Watson Style 4 Triplate found its way to the surface and into my hands in 1990, having been in an attic in a council house in Wembley Park for many years. The George Beauchamp guitar, the World Trade Fair mandolin, all remained undiscovered for a very long time before they surfaced. I just hope that if it surfaces in my lifetime that I can buy it, or if I am not around that one of my descendants can buy it. One thing for sure, at some point in the future it will be a highly valued and collectable piece. I just hope the story stays with it, because I never owned it and that over time could get blurred. Shine On Michael
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Post by bonzo on Dec 19, 2020 14:35:09 GMT
You'd think that someone (based on our lot) who owned such a wonderful guitar would be forever showing it off at every opportunity! On finding guitars, didn't your wonderful and unique National 12 string turn up on a bar wall covered in Christmas lights?!
Best wishes to you all, John
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Post by bluesnut on Dec 19, 2020 20:30:57 GMT
Aloha Michael,
What a piece of art. I can see why you would want it back.
Brian
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Post by leeophonic on Dec 19, 2020 21:01:59 GMT
Re the 12 string
Colin from Note cannons had recently moved to Canada, between 98-2001 he returned and paid a visit, whilst he was over I pointed it out on the new fangled ebay, Colin had the momentum to buy it, Michael when he visited Colin in Canada got hooked on it, and Mike Lewis in Paris restored it to it's former glory for all to see.
Lee
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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 19, 2020 22:31:14 GMT
Re the 12 string Colin from Note cannons had recently moved to Canada, between 98-2001 he returned and paid a visit, whilst he was over I pointed it out on the new fangled ebay, Colin had the momentum to buy it, Michael when he visited Colin in Canada got hooked on it, and Mike Lewis in Paris restored it to it's former glory for all to see. Lee This is not related to the thread about Continental and Amistar, so I don’t think we should continue with it on here. Shine On Michael
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Post by Bottleneck John on Dec 20, 2020 13:50:42 GMT
Awesome King Guitar!!
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Post by vastopol on Dec 21, 2020 11:41:43 GMT
Fantastic to discovering this very special guitar; thanks Michael, and to all who bring some memories around Franta and his work. I have a great picture showing Franta in front of this wall seen in the video, with a Continental tricone and a big wood plate hand carved comemorating "Dobro" (out of the screen that day); I know he was very gratefull, and in touch with de descendants of the Dopyera family, somewhat proud of carrying something in common with the slovakian culture where the Dopyeras came from. Yes this engraver did a great attempt to read and understand the original drawings, as well creating new and unique variations; very impressive. I hope he's again engraving, it seems "Leewald" carries somethhing of the tooling and spirit of Amistar, but they're not showing any engraved models. Oh sorry for the mistake Bluesnut; my thought about a pointed area probably resulting of an missreading of Michael drawings and measurements is noticeable only on twelve frets instruments; tricones at first, and because the twelve frets metal bodies (single cone) came latter than forteen fretters in production (in China), we can supose they are based on the tricone drawing. (So comparing a Delphi 12', with a Continental 14' can't tell much of that idea; looking closer to a vintage National and compare to a Chinese copy, both in twleve frets, should make you understand what I'm talking about). It's very sad to know that such a great project to see franta working with Michael couldn't be...it could make us wonder how we're buying objects without paying attention to know how he was made, by who and where, under wich working and social conditions...the market wants allways more cheaper costs of production, letting more benefits to the seller than to the producers;...it partly explains the world crisis where we are now. I hope we get more aware of our responsabilties when buying something in the future, I mean, in those times I should be glad to pay more for a Michael-Franta instrument, knowing it was made correctly, technicaly and ethiqualy speaking...more than what I paid for my very heavy weight first Johnson Tricone for sure... (I know Michael carefully choose his associates to create the MM instruments, but with some compromises to get the best instruments from the existing tooling, it could be too costly to get a new design for stamping tools and dies to get a more appropriate shape...saddly also perhaps because none of us want, (or can?) pay more, for better?...) Chinese resonators guitars are based on an "Amistar"copy, as Bottlneck John says, but I wonder if someone noticed how "Johnson" or china made ukuleles are based on "Beltona"...(the shape is very unique; nothing like a National big or small body, but somewhat between the two...). It looks like the Chinese mandolin is the only instrument designed closer to National, but with a less deep soundwell, to make them working with a guitar shaped cone, perhaps to cut the costs of producing some specific tools (usefull to know; so don't spend money on a new NRP cone; he can't fit into a chinese body!)
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Post by bluesnut on Dec 23, 2020 6:33:38 GMT
Vastopol,
No worries, I posted the pic of the two guitars together just for fun. That video link an earlier post shows the obvious different body shapes near the neck. At this point I am just happy to have a brass guitar that looks to be Not made in china based on the info acquired by you and others here on this forum, and less expensive. The Continental has a distinctively different sound from the NRP but both are good.
Peace, Brian
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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 23, 2020 15:55:51 GMT
Fantastic to discovering this very special guitar; thanks Michael, and to all who bring some memories around Franta and his work. I have a great picture showing Franta in front of this wall seen in the video, with a Continental tricone and a big wood plate hand carved comemorating "Dobro" (out of the screen that day); I know he was very gratefull, and in touch with de descendants of the Dopyera family, somewhat proud of carrying something in common with the slovakian culture where the Dopyeras came from. Yes this engraver did a great attempt to read and understand the original drawings, as well creating new and unique variations; very impressive. I hope he's again engraving, it seems "Leewald" carries somethhing of the tooling and spirit of Amistar, but they're not showing any engraved models. Oh sorry for the mistake Bluesnut; my thought about a pointed area probably resulting of an missreading of Michael drawings and measurements is noticeable only on twelve frets instruments; tricones at first, and because the twelve frets metal bodies (single cone) came latter than forteen fretters in production (in China), we can supose they are based on the tricone drawing. (So comparing a Delphi 12', with a Continental 14' can't tell much of that idea; looking closer to a vintage National and compare to a Chinese copy, both in twleve frets, should make you understand what I'm talking about). It's very sad to know that such a great project to see franta working with Michael couldn't be...it could make us wonder how we're buying objects without paying attention to know how he was made, by who and where, under wich working and social conditions...the market wants allways more cheaper costs of production, letting more benefits to the seller than to the producers;...it partly explains the world crisis where we are now. I hope we get more aware of our responsabilties when buying something in the future, I mean, in those times I should be glad to pay more for a Michael-Franta instrument, knowing it was made correctly, technicaly and ethiqualy speaking...more than what I paid for my very heavy weight first Johnson Tricone for sure... (I know Michael carefully choose his associates to create the MM instruments, but with some compromises to get the best instruments from the existing tooling, it could be too costly to get a new design for stamping tools and dies to get a more appropriate shape...saddly also perhaps because none of us want, (or can?) pay more, for better?...) Chinese resonators guitars are based on an "Amistar"copy, as Bottlneck John says, but I wonder if someone noticed how "Johnson" or china made ukuleles are based on "Beltona"...(the shape is very unique; nothing like a National big or small body, but somewhat between the two...). It looks like the Chinese mandolin is the only instrument designed closer to National, but with a less deep soundwell, to make them working with a guitar shaped cone, perhaps to cut the costs of producing some specific tools (usefull to know; so don't spend money on a new NRP cone; he can't fit into a chinese body!) Vastapol, It is not sad because I do not believe that a relationship between myself and Franta would have produced guitars any better than the instruments I produce in Shanghai with my friends there. Franta refused to see what was happening in Shanghai and how good their work was, and sadly it affected his business. Please do not put everything together under one heading "Chinese", because it is both derogatory and wrong. It would be more correct to use "Shanghai" as the umbrella of a group of makers that are capable of producing instruments as good as anyone. ALL resonator guitars are based on original National guitars that were designed by John Dopyera and his gang and built in the 1920s and 30s. That is the root source and everything comes from that. So to say that "China" copied Amistar is based on some truth, but is also unfair because there were other catalysts in that process; Continental, National Reso-Phonic, Republic and me, all contributed to the development of the Shanghai resonator guitar scene as we know it today. Much of the tooling that is used came from Republic and me. Shine On Michael
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