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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2007 10:49:23 GMT
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Post by tark on Jul 25, 2007 16:25:56 GMT
That link seems to be corrupted. I think the link extension should be .html with an 'h' , not .ntml
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Post by tark on Jul 25, 2007 17:06:50 GMT
Finally found the Continental thread on IGS.
Well that clarifies things - NOT!!
It seems the story behind Continental is even more convoluted than I thought. In this thread Mr Mando says that the Continental company started making National copies way before NRP. He also says that originally the guys that eventually formed Amstar were Czech metalworkers contracted to build the Continental bodies. They only became Amistar and started making guitars after Continental ended their association. Also Continental did ship German silver to the Czech Republic for use on some of their bodies. At some point the founders of Continental split up and the one remaining started using far eastern bodies to build guitars that were inferior to the earlier Continentals. So who knows what's going on now with the Thomann Continentals (3 models out of 4 are currently listed as in stock, only the Style II tricone is out). They do seem highly specd for the money.
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Post by bluesnut on Dec 16, 2020 21:50:13 GMT
Hello, This is my first post here. I just acquired a 1994 Continental O-P single cone guitar. I am almost positive it is the German brass version. The date and green patina was the give a way for me. Opinion's appreciated. What do you all think? The wall hanger pick is how I think it got the patina on the upper bout. It was there for a while from what the guy who I got it from said. Brian In Hawaii
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Post by vastopol on Dec 17, 2020 0:28:29 GMT
Aloha! Continental story is very shady, I don't know if your guitar is really made of "german silver", but it seems like in 1994 they haven't used nothing but brass. ...well that brass may come from Germany.
Don't want to tear down your joy, its a very prety instrument. Just based on pictures and adverts seen on the web, it seems that most every sales mention "german silver", everybody wants to claim that noble perspective of course, and push the prices up...even in some very important dealers adverts, aside pictures clearly showing brass, (because when finishing the bodies, the workers pushed the polishing to hard and stripped the nickel on angles, so anyone can see the yellow color of brass). I may be wrong but it looks like german silver theory maintains the prices high, so internet creates and einforces the legend. There's lot of stories about this brand, sometimes very funny to read, with "german silver" send to China, or "brass" send to Czech from Germany..."this alloy only used seven times"... No other brand remains in that state of fantasy.
But there's not much mention about how weird their neck-stick are made...specialy the first batch with a big screw on the back. In fact this stick is too thin, and curved, not straight as it should be, and sadly not stable at all. And for the best, the big screw is drilled acros the neck and stick junction, all the way across the stick, and stops just underneath the fingerboard, weakening the spot where strengt is needed... A very strange idea. We can imagine that they try to make something close to a "Dobro" neck block assembly...but a "Dobro" doesn't have a side to side glueing beetween neck and stick. Sticking that screw here is very risky and not durable for the less. I hope you have a straight neck-stick inside, no screw on the back? The nickel finish is very thin and gets aged beautyfuly, maybe the weather of Hawaii helps to get that patina, but keep in mind that area could be frequently in contact with hand, it's very common to see that special spot oxydising on nickel platted instrumets. However these Continetal have a certain charm, and very nice necks, congratulations!
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Post by bluesnut on Dec 17, 2020 15:50:10 GMT
Aloha Vastopol,
It has no screws visible on the neck and has a nice tight fit. Looking through the f hole I can see brass colored (White brass maybe) area that looks to have been scratched or left this way. I got it because it did not have the screw on the back, it thought that was a strange thing.
It has that Sam Michell sound. It plays well and has the action set up for slide. The neck it self has just a bit of relief in it. The neck is very clean hardly a scratch. Frets have no wear.
I have not opened it up because it sound great and I do not want to mess any thing up. If it aint broke.
According to legend 1994 was the 2nd year of production.
Peace,
Brian
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Post by bluesnut on Dec 17, 2020 19:30:15 GMT
Aloha, I did not have any elusions of what I was getting because due diligence was done. It seems that Nickle plated brass is a good thing which is why I pulled the trigger on it. A new Nickle plated National type 1 goes for $5000.oo, I got this one for 3x less. Also the patina/mojo was there already. The input was very much apricated you helped me feel more confident that it is brass and that is fine. Thank you, Brian
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Post by Bottleneck John on Dec 17, 2020 19:33:37 GMT
Early on Continental bought bodies from Amistar and had necks from Japan. I think it was 1992 it started. Put together in Germany. In the early 2000's they started getting all their parts from the same factory in China that makes so many of all todays resonators, under different brands. The necks also. The factory was named AXL, but this was long ago. I remember seing their stuff at the MusikMesse in Frankfurt in 2005, then it was all Chinese parts. Same as Johnsons for example.
Also Franta Javurek at Amistar told me that his business started out more or less because of the demand for metal bodies from Continetal! And that the Chinese factory didn't copy a genuine National body when they started making reso bodies but Amistars made in the Cz.Republic, haha! So all the early Chinese made stuff like Johnson and Vintage etc, were Amistar clones.. That's how it all began, according to Frantisek Javurek.
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Post by bluesnut on Dec 17, 2020 19:37:49 GMT
Bottleneck John, Yep
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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 17, 2020 20:19:55 GMT
Early on Continental bought bodies from Amistar and had necks from Japan. I think it was 1992 it started. Put together in Germany. In the early 2000's they started getting all their parts from the same factory in China that makes so many of all todays resonators, under different brands. The necks also. The factory was named AXL, but this was long ago. I remember seing their stuff at the MusikMesse in Frankfurt in 2005, then it was all Chinese parts. Same as Johnsons for example. Also Franta Javurek at Amistar told me that his business started out more or less because of the demand for metal bodies from Continetal! And that the Chinese factory didn't copy a genuine National body when they started making reso bodies but Amistars made in the Cz.Republic, haha! So all the early Chinese made stuff like Johnson and Vintage etc, were Amistar clones.. That's how it all began, according to Frantisek Javurek. John, that is not totally factual. Franta Javurek was a great man and the world is without question a lesser place without him, but it has to be understood that he refused to accept what was happening in Shanghai. I tried to do some business with Franta, but I could not get passed him ranting about the Shanghai resonator guitar makers, such as AXL. AXL were involved because the Continental tooling had been shipped to China. The name stayed with the cone spinners in Shanghai and are still called Continental. Their cones are as much based on some originals that I gave them, as they are Continentals. The very first Continental guitar was a tricone. It was made from some drawings and tracings that I did and sent to Hans Graaf. The guy that ran the resonator department at AXL is the guy that I work with in Shanghai. There are numerous spin-off companies in Shanghai, all buying parts and making guitars. It is very hard to track what is what and who is who. The tailoring trade in the East End of London in the 1950s and 60s was the same. Outworkers everywhere making parts and assembling products. Shine On Michael
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Post by Bottleneck John on Dec 17, 2020 20:40:14 GMT
Early on Continental bought bodies from Amistar and had necks from Japan. I think it was 1992 it started. Put together in Germany. In the early 2000's they started getting all their parts from the same factory in China that makes so many of all todays resonators, under different brands. The necks also. The factory was named AXL, but this was long ago. I remember seing their stuff at the MusikMesse in Frankfurt in 2005, then it was all Chinese parts. Same as Johnsons for example. Also Franta Javurek at Amistar told me that his business started out more or less because of the demand for metal bodies from Continetal! And that the Chinese factory didn't copy a genuine National body when they started making reso bodies but Amistars made in the Cz.Republic, haha! So all the early Chinese made stuff like Johnson and Vintage etc, were Amistar clones.. That's how it all began, according to Frantisek Javurek. John, that is not totally factual. Franta Javurek was a great man and the world is without question a lesser place without him, but it has to be understood that he refused to accept what was happening in Shanghai. I tried to do some business with Franta, but I could not get passed him ranting about the Shanghai resonator guitar makers, such as AXL. AXL were involved because the Continental tooling had been shipped to China. The name stayed with the cone spinners in Shanghai and are still called Continental. Their cones are as much based on some originals that I gave them, as they are Continentals. The very first Continental guitar was a tricone. It was made from some drawings and tracings that I did and sent to Hans Graaf. The guy that ran the resonator department at AXL is the guy that I work with in Shanghai. There are numerous spin-off companies in Shanghai, all buying parts and making guitars. It is very hard to track what is what and who is who. The tailoring trade in the East End of London in the 1950s and 60s was the same. Outworkers everywhere making parts and assembling products. Shine On Michael OK, Michael! That's good to know, I just told what Franta told me many times. That the guy who wanted to keep making the Continentals sent one of their tricone bodies, made in Czech rep, to the Chinese factory and they copied that body. He even showed me something on the Chinese body that was a feature only found on his Amistar produced bodies not any National, just for the fun of it, haha! :-) It was easier to trace the Asian manufacturers like 20 years ago I think. Today's flooding of the reso market wasn't expected back then, so much tin-cans around today, who would have thought?! The more the merrier..
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Post by vastopol on Dec 18, 2020 13:32:45 GMT
Bluesnut, you have a beautyful guitar, I have a tender feel for this brand. I always feel that Frantizek Javurek deserves more glory to put on the market a new tricone just before another well known company...(I know Some Triplates been made succesfully around this time, but very confidentialy). Perhaps he open the gate, perhaps against his will, to a whole generation of affordable instruments... Without him, my life shall be different. The design of chinese made guitars have a significant pointed curve around the neck, instead of getting slightly flat like Nationals, in an elliptictal curve. If you imagine the line of each side to be prolongated, they should get crossed. That's also noticeable on Amistars and the majority of chinese made guitars deserves something to Franta. Some instruments surfaced under "Johnson", and "Regal" brands, but clearly made by Franta's hands: jakewildwood.blogspot.com/2016/09/2001-amistar-made-johnson-tricone-guitar.html(Funny to see the wrong big screw added later...) Destiny is sometimes very strange; here's a documentary on Czech TV, showing the crafters on work at Amistar, you can see a Continental tricone on the wall, and feel how proud Franta was. Saddly the documentary was put on screen just the day after his loss... www.ceskatelevize.cz/ivysilani/10805121298-gejzir/215562235000005/obsah/382016-ceska-dobraI think he has doing a great job, but fail to hit the point by just an hair... It's sad to knew that Michael and Franta couldn't work together; the result may have been great! (Too bad that your design and tracing been modified...the shape of a National is so charming in comparision...)
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Post by vastopol on Dec 18, 2020 13:57:37 GMT
(Oh, when talking about "Johnson" or "Regal" made by Franta, I should say, "signed" by Franta...parts eventualy coming from diferent sources...)
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Post by bonzo on Dec 18, 2020 14:23:10 GMT
WOW! Thanks for sharing that video link vestapol. Couldn't understand a word but knew exactly what they were talking about. Some great looking reso's on view (plus a very nice guitar shirt!) Also nice footage of actual construction going on. As for the engraver, well wouldn't we all like someone with those skills living in our neighbourhood. Hoped I might have caught a glimpse of my 12 string, it must have been made about the same time. A recommended watch definitely!
Best wishes to you all, John
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Post by bluesnut on Dec 18, 2020 14:31:09 GMT
Hello all, Since it was mentioned that the upper bout at the neck was more elliptical I thought it would be fun to compare a my National Delphi to the Continental O-P. I know, different models but it's all I have to work with. Comments wanted. Checz or Chinese? Update, I just looked at the video and knowing what to look for you can see the difference of the angle at the neck on some guitars. The engraver has skills. Brian
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