|
Post by tark on Apr 21, 2007 4:03:05 GMT
Here's something about strings which I haven't seen clearly explained anywhere -
The wrap wire used may be silver, copper (usually silver plated), phosphor bronze, bronze (actually bronze strings are brass not bronze), nickel, nickel plated steel or stainless steel. These materials are listed in order from soft to hard. Strings wound with soft metals are more mellow while strings wound with the harder materials are brighter. The unwound strings (apart from stainless steel) are always made of high carbon steel with a coating usually of tin. The same high carbon steel wire is used for the cores of most wound strings. Strings from different manufacturers differ mainly in the size ratios of core to wrap wire and in the exact finished gauges used to make up a set. As Michael says most strings made today use hexagonal core wire because its much easier to manufacturer wound strings of consistent quality using hex cores. Before hex wire became available all strings were made with round cores. Most piano strings are still made with round cores because this makes for a more flexible string that produces a wide range of true harmonics.
Strings can be chosen to suit a guitar and the sound you are after. If a particular guitar has a strong warm bass then using brass or even nickel wound strings can help to boost the treble relative to the bass or visa versa.
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Apr 21, 2007 11:00:45 GMT
Hello Tark,
Welcome to our forum.
I don't totally understand your point in the post you have added to this thread?
I have just visited your Acoustic Masters website. Interesting.
Keep in touch,
Shine On, Michael
|
|
|
Post by Mark Makin on Apr 21, 2007 11:42:40 GMT
Hello Tark The main criticism of hex core strings is that the winding can only touch the core at six points and that the air gaps between allow the ingress of finger grease and dirt far faster than a circular core string would. Consequently the lifespan of a hex core string is greatly reduced. They are only made this way to aid the life of the manufacturer not the musician. The circular core strings will tune to pitch at a lower tension than hex cores - thus allowing heavier gauge strings to feel easier to play. I would have thought that the choice of metals in the string winds is a known subjective issue. Nickel, bronze, brass, all have their own characteristics. Early blues men with Nationals wouldn't have had a choice of phosphor bronze or nickel.
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Apr 21, 2007 14:10:49 GMT
Hello Tark, I have often seen your product advertized, but have never any contact details. I am intruiged by your Reso-Bridge and your reasons for designing it? Your comments on your website about intonation, its history, and resophonic guitars are debatable. To get the intonation correct on a resophonic guitar one relies on getting the neck angle correct, the cones and bridge positions correct and the height of the strings correct. With all these points correct, the intonation should be as close as necassery to be able to play music in tune with other instruments, and the instrument's maximum potential should be obtained. I believe John Dopyera, George Beauchamp, Harry Watson and others at National knew exactly what they were doing and this has been proved through the years by numerous great musicians playing 'in tune' on National guitars without adjustable bridge saddles (these are not musicians who use 'simple strummed accompaniment'). I agree that on electric guitars it is great to be able to adjust each string, or pairs of strings, to get everything as near perfect as possible. But flat top and other acoustic guitars have never had adjustable bridge saddles either - so do you believe that all acoustics do not have correct intonation and play out of tune? They all have one bridge saddle set at an angle, which is exactly the same as a National single cone, Tricone or Dobro spider bridge. There is no such thing as perfect intonation on any guitar - it is always a compromise. ACOUSTIC MASTERS www.acousticmasters.com/AcousticMasters_ResoBridgeS.htmShine On, Michael.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2007 14:36:26 GMT
I’m glad I noticed this thread because it answers the question of what links National Reso-phonic have to the original National company, something I’ve wondered about for a while. I assumed that NRP and National were related in some way but I couldn’t find a definitive answer anywhere. I thought NRP must have at least bought the rights to use the brand name and perhaps even the original designs (surely design rights and patents have long expired). Now I know that there’s no connection, I have to admit that it has changed my opinion of their guitars to some degree.
I’ve always considered NRP guitars to be a cut above all of the other resonators on the market, largely because they appeared to be the originals (all be it lacking some original features that even cheap imports have; the arched back for example). Fine Resophonic, Beltona, Donmo and all the others, although no doubt fine guitars, were copies. I now know this isn’t the case at all and they should all be considered equals. If I’d have bought a NRP without knowing this, I think I’d have felt slightly duped.
I suppose it really doesn’t matter as long as NRP make good guitars and from what I’ve heard they do. They certainly look nice and the recordings I’ve heard sound great to my inexperienced ears. I’m certainly not saying I wouldn’t buy a NRP, I almost certainly will before the end of the year, but at least my buying decision will be more informed now.
|
|
|
Post by steadyrollinman on Apr 21, 2007 18:25:13 GMT
Hi Blisters,
Regarding National Resophonic, I also think there has been some clever marketing regarding the new "Nationals". However, having played most of the budget entry models, along with 2 1930 duolians, and 2 1930's tricones, all of which had fairly serious neck problems, I am now the very happy owner of a new style O, and a fairly new tricone. It's true they don't sound quite as good as the 1930 models, but I would bet they didn't sound that amazing when they were new. In just under a year, my style O is getting much warmer, and has an incredible sound. The tricone sings like a bird, full of the most incredible harmonics, and is truly a Lovely guitar. Considering how well made they are, they will last a long time, and who knows, they may sound even better than the original Nationals. My only dilemma, is whether to buy a Delphi.
Regards,
Chris,
|
|
|
Post by Mr X on Apr 21, 2007 18:29:30 GMT
Not all the Old National guitars are sweet sounding,far from! :oThe National Resophonic Guitars is one of the best guitar builders in the world,top of the line. Great valeue for monye. The workman skills are in the same division as in "custom made"
|
|
|
Post by steadyrollinman on Apr 21, 2007 18:40:04 GMT
Hear Hear!
Chris
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2007 19:41:41 GMT
Hi steadyrollinman and Mr X,
I’m sure you’re both right; NRP probably do make fantastic guitars (I haven’t had the pleasure of playing one or even seeing one in the flesh yet). I haven’t heard a bad word about them; some people say they sound a bit nasal compared to the old ones but generally everyone seems to agree that they’re beautifully built instruments. I’m sure I’ll agree when I get one.
I don’t even have a problem with how NRP has assumed the National brand and heritage; it’s very clever marketing. I certainly don’t have a problem with them using modern production techniques. They’re just giving the customer what they want; a vintage style resophonic guitar with the right name on the headstock at a reasonable price. I just look at them slightly differently now that I know they have no more legitimate claim to be the original resophonic guitar than any other maker. I appreciate that NRP probably don’t make that claim directly, but by using the National brand I made the assumption that they were the originators and I suspect other people would have done the same.
Of course it doesn’t really matter; they either make good guitars or they don’t. When I graduate to a proper resonator (I’ve currently got a Johnson) I’ll judge NRP the same as any other maker whereas before reading this thread I probably would have been swayed by the National name. Such is the power of a strong brand and what it stands for.
Cheers, Iain.
|
|
|
Post by Mark Makin on Apr 22, 2007 15:38:27 GMT
You're all still missing the point. Nobody says that NRP make a bad product -= they are very good. They have, however, started misrepresenting their product as a direct descendant of the original Nationals - i.e the same instrument from the same family but with 21st century manufacture. This is NOT the case. Originally, Don Young told me that he respected the standards of the old company and wanted to break away from the OMI Dobro company (whose standards were slipping) where he worked in order to build a NEW product closer to the standards of the old Nationals. This he has achieved - bettering what Dobro were making in the 1970s was not difficult! His product - the Jazz Blues - had a similar National shield on the headstock with "National Reso-phonic" on it. No problem. In the subsequent ten years - this logo has been replaced with the ORIGINAL NATIONAL LOGO from 1929. This logo belongs to a company that ceased manufacture in 1941. The argument is therefore NOT related to their product or it's quality - only to the fact that it is blatantly deceiving people as to it's origins. This is made even worse by their construction of REPLICONS - openly pretending to be original instruments. The only people who would support this situation or turn a blind eye to it are those narcissistic individuals who want to pretend to their friends that they have a National!. No you haven't!- you have a NATIONAL RESOPHONIC
|
|
|
Post by mirrormist on Apr 22, 2007 16:29:38 GMT
Hello guys:)
I was watching a rerun on TV of a certain mr Clarkson driving around in a 250 miles an hour 5 million pound to produce Maserati (I think that was what it was anyway) and I am sure that that has little or no connection with the original company…but the company that built it obviously own the rights to the name now. So to most people it is exactly what it says on the tin (badge) regardless of any other (non)heritage I tried to find a bad report about National Resophonic guitars on the net earlier today but gave up without success…I know that isn’t the point made but I thought I’d mention it as I wouldn’t want folk to get an impression that new national are fakes or inferior in any way. Purists seem to me to be the only ones banging on about “It aint a real national” Whether that is through wanting to uphold historical fact or inverted snobbery is for others to decide…I have my thoughts though I believe the second hand value of old Nationals plummeted when the new company’s production got under way so maybe there is a touch of sour grapes that fuels this argument for some.
As far as I am concerned if they own the badge (and I don’t know if they do) they own the right of association. Most of my friends would neither know nor care what either make of guitar are:)
I think it’s time for the NRP Ludites to play another tune hahaha
Regards and best wishes to all:)
|
|
|
Post by Mark Makin on Apr 22, 2007 16:45:58 GMT
Hello Mirrormist Do you think you've bought an MG sportscar if you got it from MG Rover?
|
|
|
Post by rickS on Apr 22, 2007 17:14:52 GMT
Small point - I'm not so sure NR has affected the prices of original Nats, they still seem very high, & climbing higher; otherwise, I support Mr Makin's contention - the issue isn't quality ( or, IMO, snobbery, inverted or otherwise), but possible misrepresentation, which works to the competitive disadvantage of rival builders of high-quality instruments - a fair & valid point, surely?
|
|
|
Post by mirrormist on Apr 22, 2007 17:27:11 GMT
Hello Mark Are you one of my neighbours? hahaha Well as it happens I drive an MGF...though i didn't get it from MG rover …now to me it is an MG…but it may not be to the purists (I don’t know and care little) in much the same way that the new MG’s shortly to come out of China will probably be by those who care about such nuances of heritage. I do know that MG go back a long way…I don’t however know whether any links were broken throughout the history of the brand. It is an early model with very low mileage but unfortunately it is showing signs of the dreaded k series cylinder head gasket fault….so I may have my work cut out over the summer:)... So do ya think that all those nice bikers riding around on their fancy new triumph motorcycle think they are riding anything other than a triumph?...i am sure there will be those that say not hahaha kindest regards & Best wishes
|
|
|
Post by Mark Makin on Apr 22, 2007 18:55:48 GMT
Hello RickS A fair and valid point - most definitely!
Hello Mirrormist I have no axe to grind as a purist and certainly have no problem with any fluctuation in vintage National prices - I've sold most of mine now anyway!. My issue, as Rick S notices, is that it confers a level of reputation, craftsmanship and heritage on a product that they are not entitled to - it does indeed create an uneven "playing field " for other builders - and , again I'm not partisan, Beeton, Steve Evans, Mike Lewis etc. etc all have as much right to that heritage. If people were not seduced by the "National" badge - they may end up with an instrument that would suit them better - NRP isn't (IMHO) necessarily the first, only or indeed, best, choice
|
|