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Post by marshcat on Feb 16, 2007 10:38:48 GMT
>>Do you think that the cone upgraded Vintage (manufacturer) tricone you a/b’d against your 1928 Style 1 and Style 3 may sound less/harsh more mellow and have richer overtones after 78 years of playing?<< Well, who knows? I won't be around to check, but somehow I have my doubts. I know that 40 years after they were made, 'sixties metal Dobros still sound, well let's be kind, pretty much as they sounded back then. And their quality control was still somewhat better than the current far-Eastern copies. I also think that '20s/'30s tricones probably sounded phenomenal straight out of the box (just listen to the recordings of Tampa Red, Oscar Woods, Tau Moe, Sol Hoopii or Black Ace Turner). This is why they became so very popular so very quickly among both blues and Hawaiian players. In short, limiting ourselves to tricones for now, I think National got it right in the 'twenties: the German silver bodies and the slotted headstock certainly improve the tone (I've compared several post-1935 brass-bodied/flat-headstock tricones with earlier ones). They are, of course, considerably lighter than the modern equivalents, even the National Resophonics, as the gauge of the metal is quite a bit thinner. As for 78 years of cone oxidation, all I can say is that it certainly doesn't seem to have done any harm... Marshcat www.deltaechoes.co.uk
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Post by smojo on Feb 16, 2007 14:31:39 GMT
quote - "I'd always recommend a prospective buyer tries out as many instruments as possible (dozens? hundreds?) because sooner or later there will be one which pumps its harmonies into the chest cavity, ups the pulse rate and injects its resonance permanently into the bloodsteam" I want one of these please - I'm relying on alcohol for this affect at the mo
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2007 22:37:59 GMT
So we finally get round to the reality of life, booze and blues (played on a brand spanking new best budget guitar) . As the great philosopher Homer J Simpson was once heard to utter - 24 cans in a tray, 24 hours in a day - coincidence! I dont think so
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Post by Dave D on Feb 27, 2007 14:03:55 GMT
Hi all
I think the number of different replies to this thread simply prove that there is no single definitive answer to the budget reso question. The only way is to try out as many different ones as you can, ask as many people as possible and once you get the guitar, keep working on it until it suits you.
When I was looking I was very fortunate to find a Hohner wooden-bodied reso in a local music shop . It was not expensive at £200, but..,. it was secondhand, had rusty.009 guage strings on it, a thick coat of dust and it sounded awful. I took a chance on it and it's eventually worked out fine - but only after many months of working on it.
I've lost count of the number of times I've had it apart, the different strings I've tried (I can reccomend the one that Michael endorses) and the work I've done on it. (One of my main reservations about it was that it was very loud to the listener but sounded very quiet to the player. After seeking opinions and advice on this forum I eventually drilled two extra holes on the top edge of the guitar so that more sound projected up to the player. I covered these with a an extra pair of grilles which match those on the front (from Resound - excellent reso specialists - find them on Google) and it all worked out fine. It might not sound like a £1,000+ instrument but it ceratinyly sounds good enough to my ears. I had a Macintrye mandolin pickup fitted (a great reccomendation from a local luthier and a bargain at £40) and have used in on gigs and been very happy with it.
If I'd had the cash to buy a genuine National, I doubt all the work would have been needed. I was lucky and it all worked out but I know that I could have ended up with a useless box that sounded awfu;l. Theere's always an element of risk buying budget instruments and I think that applies two-fold to budget resonators, but with patience and some work it is possible to get what you want in the end.
Dave
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markh
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Post by markh on Feb 27, 2007 16:58:12 GMT
Hi all. Great site/forum. Michael the reviews you did on budget resonators are the most thorough guitar reviews I've ever ever read. Thanks so much.
Are any of you familiar with the Goldtone Beard signature resonator models? I've heard good things about them elsewhere, but your opinions would be much appreciated.
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 27, 2007 17:17:44 GMT
Hi Markh,
Welcome to our forum and thanks for your comments about my reviews. I think that writing a review of an instrument should be both thorough and honest, otherwise it defeats the object and becomes a free advert for the manufacturer.
The Goldtone Beard Dobro-style guitars are excellent value for money. I have seen quite a few of them on my visits to the LRC and I think they are a good guitar. I have not been inside one with a microscope, but from picking them up and from hearing other people playing them, I think they are fine and if you are looking for an off-the-shelf Dobro in that price range, you probably can't do better.
Any input from forum members will be much appreciated.
Keep in touch
Shine On, Michael.
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Post by mistercanetoad on Feb 27, 2007 20:52:07 GMT
There are lots of decent budget resonators out there, and plenty of bad ones! Try as many as you can until you find one you like. Cheap far eastern imports have led to a democratisation of resonators, and they are getting better all the time! You dont need to spend thousands to get something that sounds pretty good. Mind you once you get the reso bug............................. I've had an AXL metal bodied tricone for a year or two. It needed some work, new National cones helped things along. Its pretty good, not as good as a 2 grand guitar but not too far off. It still gets played a lot even though i bought a National Radiotone last year. I also have a wooden bodied Ozark tricone, I got it in a swap from my local Music shop who couldn't sell it because it sounded so crap! Basically it was the quietest acoustic guitar in the shop. The main cause of this turned out to be the cones....more like old fasioned chromed hubcaps! I put in the old cones out of my AXL which are not too bad and it perked up a great deal. It's still not as loud as the metal bodied monster but has a decent tone. If you still looking for one of these, It's up for sale. I've got too many guitars and am having a clear out. Contact: david@dkhopewell.e7even.com
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Post by LouisianaGrey on Feb 28, 2007 11:24:38 GMT
As I said earlier, the Ozark tricone cones I saw were the worst cones I've ever seen. Nasty metal and far too thick. I've spoken to one of their directors and some of the sales staff on various occasions at trade shows pointing out that it wouldn't cost them much more to make the wooden tricone a really nice guitar, but no-one seemed very interested in the idea.
I've not played a Beard Goldtone but from what I've heard about them they seem to be good straight out of the box, which is what you want really. The only word of caution is to make sure you get the Beard version as some dealers sell Goldtones they've got direct from the manufacturer and the quality varies a lot. If you're looking for a squareneck then the Wechter Scheerhorn is supposed to be very good too and, at a slightly lower price point, the Regal RD52 Black Lightning is good value for money. Personally I'd take any of them over Gibson's cheapest offering, the Hound Dog.
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markh
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Post by markh on Mar 1, 2007 1:26:00 GMT
Thanks for the advice. A couple of the online retailers I've been shopping at claim the Goldtones they sell are set up by Beard. If I do wind up ordering online, I'll go with one of them.
I'd much rather buy from a local shop though. NYC is close, so I should be able to find someone local who carries at least a couple of mid-priced models.
On a side note, the one decent resonator I was able to try so far was a Hound Dog. The two strings that didn't buzz like pebbles in a pie tin sounded pretty nice. (I'm sure the condition of the guitar was more a reflection on the megastore I found it in, than on Gibson)
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markh
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Post by markh on May 2, 2007 0:22:36 GMT
Just in case any one interested in a Gibson HoundDog blunders into this thread and is put off by my last post: I got my hands on an undamaged HoundDog today. I've only played a few cheap resonators so I don't have much to compare it to, but it had a nice feel to it, and a sweet sound. I'm not sure it's worth the $1100 the store wanted for it, but it is a nice instrument.
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Post by Michael Messer on May 2, 2007 12:52:24 GMT
Hi Mark, My personal opinion of all Gibson Dobro guitars (not that there are many left in the range), is that they are not good instruments, or value for money. Gibson has bought the Dobro brand name and destroyed it. They now own everything 'Dobro' including the use of John Dopyera's photo in connection with resophonic guitars. The problem is, they don't know what to do with the brand. I find this unbelievable considering what National Reso-Phonic have achieved without owning the brand name. If I had the Dobro brand I could turn it into a very successful business. And I am just a slide guitarist. (Gibson Dobro Hound Dog) If you are looking for a Dobro type of guitar with a spider bridge at around 1000 USD - you should look at Lebeda, Beard, Goldtone, and one or two makers who are very well priced, such as Pete Woodman in the UK. If you are looking for a National Type guitar with a biscuit bridge in that price bracket, you should look at Amistar. However, buying guitars is a very personal thing and if you like the Hound Dog and get the sound and feel you are looking for....then look no further. Shine On, Michael.
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markh
MM Forum Member
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Post by markh on May 2, 2007 20:37:33 GMT
I'll defer to your opinion of the Hound Dog. Like I said, I haven't played anything else in the price range. I just wanted to correct the unfair impression my earlier post may have given.
By the way, do you have any idea how profitable the Dobro line is for Gibson? Do you think they would be interested in reviving ,or maybe selling, the Dobro brand name?
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Post by Michael Messer on May 2, 2007 23:18:59 GMT
Hi Mark,
The Dobro brand name has been turned into 'Gibson Original'. The Dobro logo is now the 'Gibson Original' logo. I cannot answer your question about profit, but the Dobro range has disintigrated into a couple of instruments. I doubt if they would sell the name, but whether or not they revive it, I cannot answer either. I very much doubt it, but you never know.
Keep in touch,
Shine On, Michael.
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Post by tark on May 4, 2007 4:29:20 GMT
One of the problems with budget guitars is that as far as I can see some of the brand names are just names maintained by the distributors for marketing purposes. For example 'Vintage' which seems to be owned by JHS. In this situation a distributor can simply order a batch of guitars from a Korean, Indonesian or Chinese supplier based on an outline specification. These suppliers can then sub-contract for the parts to other suppliers. They then take all these parts and assemble them into something that meets the distributors specs. During the run the supplier may switch subcontractors for the parts they are using. Then six months or a year later the original distributor decides to award a contract for making supposedly the same guitar (a guitar built roughly to the same spec) to another supplier. This may keep prices low but it doesn't guarantee that these budget instruments are going to be consistent or even attempt to be half decent guitars. I think someone else on this forum observed that at one point the Vintage Tri-cones made in Korea were half decent guitars. I would agree, I played a couple and nearly bought one. Now I wish I had. I recently bought a Vintage AMG2 made in China. This guitar has quite a resonably made nickel plated steel body, a rough heavy T bridge, and domed (not cone shaped!!) heavy thick cones. The intonation is way off since the string length is far too short. The neck is very narrow. As received it was very quite and had little character but bags of sustain due to the heavy bridge and domes (cones). The Korean versions had wider necks and lighter better sounding bridges and cones.
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Post by Michael Messer on May 4, 2007 14:05:48 GMT
Tark, you are absolutely right about the budget range of resophonic guitars. The problem is that almost every one of them is just branded with a name. Even Fender do it with theirs. The factories in Korea only require an order of 25 instruments and you can have any name or logo that you fancy on the headstock. There is absolutely no 'spec' control at all, so you could be lucky and get 25 crackers, or not and end up with 25 pieces of junk. The set-ups are done in the UK for the Vintage JHS stuff - the guy who does it has about 5 to 10 minutes per guitar, to get them up & runmning and ready to sell. I once spoke to him and he admitted that he knew nothing about resophonic guitars, he was just doing his best in the allotted time.
I have had a similar experience with Ozark Resophonic guitars (UK distributor is Stentor). They don't even know what their guitars are made of. A couple of years ago I reviewed a 3515b and it was not as the spec stated...a brass bodied guitar, it was steel. Stentor had no idea what I was questioning.
10 years ago I spoke with the people at Tanglewood about their resophonic disaster - they said that they just email some photos to the factory in Korea or Taiwan...or wherever they are, and a few weeks later a truckload of them arrives at Tanglewood HQ. Whether they are biscuit bridge, spider bridge or tricones, is of no interest. Just a pretty looking guitar that looks just like a 'real' one. I tried to get involved with their company as a designer, but I was wasting my breath.
C'est la vie! Have a good Bank Holiday weekend folks!
Shine On, Michael.
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