OK I'll Start;- One-Off MM Guitars

[andys]

Following that fascinationg thread about old one-off Nationals prompted by a thread about fingerboards, and someone asked if seeing as the MM range of guitars of guitars were made with a similar ethos as the Nationals of the 1930s, that there would be some one-offs there. Michael rightly suggested that maybe this was a subject of a new thread so.......

I have an MM Blues which I think is unusual, if not a one-off.

For a start it is 14 frets to the body.

It has a flat unbound fingerboard.

It has a brass body.

The coverplate on it is pretty heavy and thick.

It was originally matt greyburst, and when I stripped it it had a layer of green paint under the grey.


Anyone else got an unusual MM Guitar?

[Michael Messer]

There are a few unusual MM guitars that are not exactly as they should have been. They're all lovely guitars, but are not as they were meant to be.

Andy's brass MM Blues is an interesting one. I don't know of another brass MM Blues. In fact I am not sure if I would call that a brass MM Blues or a painted 14 fret MM Lightning (which doesn't really exist) with no Lightning on it? Definitely an unusual one!

The first 25 MM Blues arrived in the UK without the headstocks being stamped MICHAEL MESSER BLUES, so we made our own stamp and did those first 25 ourselves.

The first or second batch of MM Lightnings have eight screw-holes in the coverplates, rather than the standard nine holes.

My own MM Lightning has a nickel-plated steel coverplate.

There was some confusion at one point about which guitars should have binding on the necks, and therefore there are a few 12 fret MM Blues with binding which was never meant to be there.

Ian Anderson (editor of fROOTS magazine) has the only seven string 14 fret MM Style 0. This is a ONE-OFF guitar and will not be repeated. The seven strings is to make it sound like Spider John Koerner's National guitar in the Koerner, Ray & Glover days. Definitely a collectable guitar in a few decades from now.

To me these things are all good points and make the guitars much more interesting than instruments that are produced by right clicking a mouse. In years to come collectors will thank us because so many guitars built these days are all identical in every way. These guitars have character and occasionally a unique feature.

Shine On
Michael

[Matt]

Thanks andys, I was going to make this thread myself, but you certainly have a more interesting starting point in that brass-bodied blues!

Michael, you mention that some of the 12 fret blues have bound fretboards by mistake, are bound fretboards standard on just the 14 fret blues, or the lightning as well? Was this just a cosmetic decision? Maybe you could mention to the factory that they can mix things up on a couple of instruments every now and then, just to keep the surprises coming! Another thing I'd wondered was that I think you mentioned that the MM guitars originally had nato necks, but that some shipped with mahogany. Busker guitars lists all MM guitars as having mahogany necks. Is there still variation, or has one material been settled on for the time being?

I definitely agree that these small changes and improvisations are a good thing, and are a refreshing change to the identical mass produced guitars, whose only variation often seems to be due to poor quality control. If someone's thought about the process enough to do something different once in a while, it can only be good (and interesting for collectors in years to come!)

[Matt]

Also, I don't suppose you kept any pictures of the 7 string style 0? It sounds pretty cool.

[Michael Messer]

Hi Greedyostrich,

The original MM BLUES & LIGHTNING guitars were all made with nato wood necks.

After seeing some samples of mahogany, as recommended by our manufacturer, we decided to have a couple of shipments of MM guitars built with mahogany necks. We actually really like both materials, but as it is not practical to offer both, we are now considering returning to our original nato necks. There is something about the feel and tone of nato that Robin & I prefer. Don't ask me to explain what that is because I am not sure I can explain it, as the mahogany necks are lovely. But if pushed I think I prefer the nato.

As I have already said, this type of thing is great because it keeps everything fresh and we do not end up with a never-ending supply of identical cloned MM guitars.

The MM LIGHTNING & '14' fret MM BLUES have bound fretboards. The '12' fret MM BLUES should have an unbound fretboard, but there was some confusion about this which created some variations.

I'll see if I can find a pic of the 7 string MM Style 0.

Shine On
Michael

[Michael Messer]

I have moved this thread to MAIN STREET because I don't want to smother the forum with MM guitar talk.

Shine On
Michael

[gouranga]

Hi Folks...

My MML does not have a bound fretboard. But has 8 hole cover plate...08.. 0006

Cheers

Gouranga

[Michael Messer]

Hi Gouranga,

MML 0006 08 >Cool >first shipment in August 08.

I forgot to mention that our first 75 (? I think) MM LIGHTNINGS were made with unbound fretboards.

During the first few years of National in the 1920s, there were lots of changes and variations. I used to believe it was more calculated than it actually was. I now know that these changes and variations are normal for a young company and are bound to occur with low-tech old fashioned manufacturing methods. If the girl that does the binding on the fretboards misunderstands her instructions we get 50 guitars with a variation. Luckily for all of us we like these little variations and they suit the product perfectly.

Shine On
Michael

[ken1953clark]

Good news, today I took ownership of MML 0120 10, and very pretty too. But, it seems awful light, I was expecting much heavier. I'm not a metallurgist but I would swear that the body is steel, not brass as I was expecting. (The inside is not brass coloured and who plates the inside of a resonator?)

Did andys get my brass body ? It a good half kilo lighter that my Ozark 3615 (which is supposedly steel, but I'm not so sure) at around 3.7 Kg

I'm glad I've got a Lightning but not sure if I have (whatever the Chinese is for) a lemon

For completeness in this thread: 9-screw cover plate, bound fingerboard

Cheers

[andys]

And its not only smaller makers that this happens to.

Many players of certain electric guitars that were made pre-CNC will recount tales of how their set of pickups, normally regarded as having a certain tone, have a different tone and output. Maybe the person working the bobbin machine at that time left it to wind a few hundred more coils?

And as far as using up spare parts and not wasting anything, both Fender and Gibson did this until fairly recently.

Fender made some oddball solid guitars using left over bodies and necks. The Custom/Swinger was a cut down Fender XII with the neck drilled for 6 tuners instead of 12. The Musiclander was a Musicmaster with a cutout in the base of the body and the headstock cut down to a point.

And even more recently too

My two Squier 51s are great guitars but I cant help but think that the design came from a need to use a bunch of unused parts. Hardtail Strat bodies+chunkier Tele necks+unique humbuckers+Tele Bass control plates and pickguards. Put em together and make a new guitar, which is now becoming a cult classic. Only made for 3 years till the parts ran out.

Gibson too. The LP Jnr was basically a Les Paul Standard without the fancy stuff like maple cap, inlays, binding etc. Simply a plank, but simply a classic. The Marauder is a real mix. L6 body, Flying V necks made into bolt on ones, pickups made for another guitar shoehorned in.

Even VOX when they made guitars, had a load of empty Wah Wah pedal cases lying around along with some necks. They made them into small metal bodied guitars, to resounding indifference.

Now the wastage is much more.

Gibson, in some moment of questionable logic, made a Hendrix inspired Strat type guitar. Not just one or two, but lots of them. I have seen a photo somewhere of a room full of them. Such was the negative reaction to them even before release, that they didnt even put them out on sale. They are either languishing in a warehouse somewhere or they have been destroyed. None of them ever made it into the shops.

[Stevie]

My MMB 0004-08 is made from brass, has a bound fretboard and has a smooth satin black painted neck and headstock. So here's the interesting thing, it is stamped "MICHAEL MESSER / BLUES" but the paint finish displays no sign of damage.



I wonder whether Robin refinished the neck / headstock on this one, after stamping the logo but before allocating a serial number?

[Matt]

What's the difference between a 12 fret MM Blues and a 12 fret MM Lightning, other than the body material and bound neck? It's almost like you've got an MML without the lightning design!

[Stevie]

MMB 0004-08 had a distressed paint finish. The nickel plating is far from "concourse" but I much prefer it to the paint job. Forum members melp and andys kicked off the stripping lark, I just followed in their footsteps. Mine was a pig to strip. Do a forum search for (and marvel at) melp's engraving work on his reso. It's worth the effort.

Blues / Lightning- What's in a name? The most important bit is the Michael Messer bit on the top!

Ken, wave a magnet (gently!) at it....I once dunked a cheap-o brass american clock movement in the Genklene tank at work (when we still had it) and the brass came out clean but blackened. It follows that any degreasing treatment prior to any other finish would potentially turn the brass black (or darkened) I used a very long electrician's screwdriver to rub the back of the body through the "f" hole. I should have used a magnet!

[Michael Messer]

Ken, Great stuff....Enjoy!

The brass bodies are plated outside & inside. I would never say never, but it is unlikely that your guitar is steel. Test it with a magnet.

Steve, We did not spray your neck black. I would need to check this with Robin, but as I remember we had a couple like that with painted-on aged finishes in that first shipment. These are the variations that are hard to avoid and make things interesting. Are you sure it is brass? I know that Robin would remember your guitar, I will ask him about it.

Shine On
Michael

[Michael Messer]

Steve, our posts just collided!

There is no question about your knowledge of metals. If you say it's brass.....then it is.

Shine On
Michael