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Post by Lee on Dec 7, 2006 1:40:26 GMT
Hi everyone. First, a bit about me and my instrument. I've been playing slide for about a year now and playing a reso for around 6 months (although I've been playing bass at pro level for 15 years and electric guitar for around 3). My instrument is a Harley Benton branded Korean single cone bicuit reso. It was an Ebay purchase - around £250 (new) - upgraded with a National cone and biscuit... apparently. However, one of the guys at the LRC told me it is NOT a national cone. Although he only took a quick peek through the pepperpot holes so who knows!? But I like the sound anyway (for a single cone).
Anyway... it has developed a rather worrying problem. The neck seems to be coming loose from the body. The gap between the heel and the side of the body is only big enough to slide a peice of paper into but if I apply pressure to the neck, it does shift very slightly. Also, the intonation is out (sharp) to such a degree that its noticable at the 5th fret on the sixth string (the other strings are still out but not by nearly as much).
OK, here come the questions... 1) Can anyone tell me how to contact F1 Resonators? I've tried calling the number on Michaels site but had no reply and I just get an automated response by email saying 'recipient does not exist'. The reason I want to contact them is I need a local specialist to take a look and the next nearest (to my knowledge) are Delta, in deepest darkest leicestershire. I live in Nottingham by the way.
2) Is the intonation something I can do myself?
3) Do you think the neck problem is a serious one? has anyone else had a similar problem with these guitars or any others? Any chance it could be fixed DIY?
Apologies for such a long first post, but I desperately need some advice.
Many thanks in advance, Lee
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2006 8:00:21 GMT
First the relatively easy bit - intonation. This is often a compromise on reso guitars. You can slack off the strings and rotate the biscuit slightly so that the saddle slopes as per a regular acoustic - this will help the bass strings BUT at the expense of the treble strings going slightly sharp. There may be enough leeway to shuffle the whole cone back in the soundwell, but this may not be enough to give you what you need. You can do both these these adjustments without having to take off the strings and coverplate, but you will need to slacken off all the strings -don't be surprised it it starts buzzing when there wasn't a a buzz before, it's in the nature of reso guitars. If you are sharp as low as the 5th fret, then if you are playing with lightish strings and a high action at the nut, you may simply be pulling it out of tune as you play. Using a slide shouldn't be a problem, as most players automatically compensate by ear, but presumably this happens when you fret?
If the guitar is only around 6 months old, it may just be settling in a little - I'd keep an eye on it to see if it gets worse. I'm not sure how this manufacturer makes the neck joint. Has it got a full neck stick that runs from the heel of the neck to the tailpiece and dowel props between the neckstick and the back? Metal or wood body? Resos tend to have the necks fixed to the body mechanically (ie screws) rather than glued, so it may not be an impending catastastrophe, but sounds like it needs some specialist knowledge (like beyond what your local guitar shop can do -most shops still amaze me by their ignorance of what they are selling). I'd be happy to take look (I repair and build my own resos), but I'm also a little out of your way down in the deep West Midlands, so no nearer than Delta. If its a thru' neck stick, it's likely to be screwed together thru' the endpin, and also possible thru' the bottom lip of the soundwell..but the other fixing screws are generally covered by the position marker dots on the part of the fretboard which laps over the body. Some of the far-eastern manufacturers adopt non-traditional (ie not like National) methods of fixing the neck, so without getting my hands on this one, I couldn't say what you are likely to encounter.
Hope this puts you in the picture a bit more.
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Post by LouisianaGrey on Dec 7, 2006 9:32:39 GMT
I'd be surprised if it wasn't the traditional neck stick construction. There's only a couple of factories turning them out, whatever name is on the headstock, and all the ones I've seen use a neck stick.
I can think of a number of things it might be, some simple and some that are bad news. You need someone who knows what they're doing to take it apart and look inside at the neck stick to see if it's straight and if it meets the tail block for starters.
The intonation may well be something as simple as the bridge being in the wrong place. The bridge slot is often not in the centre of the biscuit, in which case take the bridge out, turn the biscuit round, put the bridge back and see what that does. You really need to get the neck sorted before you set the intonation, though.
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Post by Lee on Dec 7, 2006 10:11:14 GMT
Thanks for such a quick response guys, very much appreciated! From what I can tell by looking through the f-holes, it does seem to be the traditional full length bar and post contruction, but nothing seems to be obviously loose or detached. Of course I can only see part of it through the f-holes but I'm reluctant to have the cone out for the same reason you stated John - at the moment it is 100% rattle-free and I'd like to keep it that way! I did consider moving the bridge back very slightly as you suggested, as it is slightly forward of centre (in relation to the hole in the cover plate) so it seems there is some leeway, but I didn't realise that may cause rattles. Although I do occasionally fret the bass strings (being a bass player, I like to break a song down into a bassline for a few bars!), it's not often enough for me to risk making it sound like a can of bolts so I may just leave the intonation. In any case, if I do find someone to sort the neck out, they can address that at the same time. It's just a cost issue. How much to spend on repairs on a cheap instrument? Ahhh. decisions, decisions. In response to your comments about the brand LG, the guy who I bought it from said it's the same guitar as an Ozark, Regal or Ashbury, just with a different name on. For further info, here is the FAQ link he sent me when I first started asking questions about it before buying. www.bluesman.co.uk/reso/FAQ.htmThanks again.
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Post by Lee on Dec 7, 2006 10:14:54 GMT
Oh, and assuming you're the same ChickenboneJohn I've seen on Ebay, I have one of your cigar box guitars on my Xmas list so, fingers crossed!
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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 7, 2006 10:34:27 GMT
Lee, the advice you are getting is spot on. Only thing I would add is that you maybe should open it up and take a look. It is really hard to advise without seeing your guitar. If LRC told you that the cone is not a National Reso-Phonic one, I am sutre they are correct. To the trained eye each brand of cone has its own markings and it is easy to tell just by peeping through the holes.
Let us know how you get on....and don't panic!!!!
Shine On, Michael.
If it needs work done you should contact the names you have mentioned. F1 Guitars is no longer in business.
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Post by Lee on Dec 7, 2006 11:07:23 GMT
Hi Michael, thanks for taking the time to help out. After thinking about it, I've decided to bite the bullet and have a look inside. It's not an expensive guitar and I'm currently saving for a tricone, so if it all goes pear shaped, I'll just have to do without until I get one. It seems the best option. Now I know F1 is out of business, it means travelling/paying for couriers to maybe find out that the repair costs are too high anyway. I have a good digital camera so I'll post some pics of the inside which may help others to advise me more clearly.
On the subject of Tricones, I'm after something around the £500 mark or cheaper, preferably brass/nickel. The one that takes my fancy so far is the Regal RC-51. This is itself a bit of a compromise though as I would ideally like a 14 fret model but can't seem to find one. Any ideas anyone?
Wish me luck with the strip-down.. GULP!
Thanks again.
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Post by Lee on Dec 7, 2006 11:10:00 GMT
Oh, yeah. Any advice/tips before I start taking it apart?
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Post by Ian McWee on Dec 7, 2006 11:32:56 GMT
Hey Lee, are you near Beeston? My reason for asking is there's a great little guitar shop called 'The Guitar Stop', owned and run by our good friend James Wigginton, and he knows plenty about the workings of resonators Give Jim a call on 0115 9139141 and mention that Ian from Diamond Bottlenecks pointed you in his direction, and if you take your guitar into the shop he'll be happy to show you what's required ;D Slide On! Ian. www.diamondbottlenecks.com
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Post by Lee on Dec 7, 2006 11:44:22 GMT
Hi Ian. Man, am I glad I came on this forum! Yes, I'm very close to Beeston, thats great news. I shall pay Jim a visit and mention your name. Thanks so much!
Incidentally, are there any members on here from the Nottingham area?
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Post by LouisianaGrey on Dec 7, 2006 17:29:59 GMT
Ask Jim for a look at the reso I made him while you're there, Lee! The info on that website is a bit out of date. The Ashbury is the same as the Regal and they're both Chinese. The Antoria is definitely Korean. Regal switched production a couple of years ago and changed the model names so the RC1 was Korean but the RC2 is Chinese. Ditto the spider bridges - RD45 was Korean, RD40 is Chinese etc. Ashburys used to be Korean too. Ozark assured me about a year ago that they are all Korean although some of their models look remarkably like other brands that I know are Chinese. Harley Benton may well be Korean if they're steel bodied. It is (I think) the proprietary brand of Thomann. As a matter of interest the Chinese will put whatever brand you want on a guitar and some of the Chinese factories only want a minimum order of 25 to do that. I don't necessarily agree with everything he says on that site - for example I think the quality of Chinese metal bodied resos is now as good as Korean although that wasn't always the case - but that's just personal opinions. However the picture of the cones on the website is definitely wrong. National cones don't have those vertical lines around the edge, they look like this and the National biscuit is shiny black with their name stamped into it. I don't think you'll find a 14 fret tricone from any of the factories as they all copy the National. You might get a custom one made though. The RC51 is nice if you get a good one, but benefits from the modifications you can find loads of information about on this board and many others.
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Post by Lee on Dec 8, 2006 2:19:01 GMT
Hey Pete, thanks for all the advice. Very much appreciated. I'll definately take a look at your Reso when I'm over at The Guitar Spot. What style is it? Yeah I kind of took that FAQ page with a pinch of salt to be honest. However, it's been a decent enough sounding guitar for me to be learning on. However, I feel I've already outgrown it in the sense that I've since realised that the sound I'm hearing in my had and striving to acheive is that of a tricone, not a single, charming though it is. Another problem Im having is that the neck is too narrow (1 and 5/8" at the nut) - or to be more precise, the string spacing is too narrow for me. I don't know if that is particularly narrow for a reso but I'll need to consider that when I'm looking for a tricone. My finger picking - which I'm just starting out with - has derived naturally from my fingerstyle bass playing, which I've done for years on a 5-string. I'd be more comfortable with more space! I took a look at your site, nice work:) I don't suppose you've thought of building a baritone 14 fret brass/nickel tricone... cheap... very cheap Thanks again, Lee
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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 8, 2006 10:32:14 GMT
I am just butting in to make one point; 14 fret Tricones don't exist. The nearest you'll get is that some factories are producing cut-away models, but so far I have not seen one that sounds good. Tricones are weird beasts and if you are not sure what to get, don't get one. Stick with a single cone National style guitar, or a Dobro spider-bridge style guitar.
I don't know anything about the Guitar Spot and their experience with resophonic guitars, but I have spoken with the owner, James, he is a very nice guy and I am sure will put you on the right track. I can recommend that you raise your budget a few quid and commission Pete Woodman to build you a guitar. A hand built instrument will be better than anything you can buy that was assembled in Korea or China.
Shine On, Michael.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2006 16:21:13 GMT
Hey Lee...yes, I am the same (one and only) ChickenboneJohn. Looks like you've got a lot of advice pretty rapidly... it's great isn't it? Off the topic - the cigar box guitars are flying out, so I'm not sure if Santa has managed to reserve one for you...his little helpers are doing their best to keep up with the seemingly insatiable demand!
Also, if you find the neck on your guitar a bit narrow, getting a new nut cut with marginally wider spacing can make a noticeable difference. I thought the neck on my Kay jazzer was very narrow, but when I actually measured it, it wasn't that different from my other guitars, but the string spacing was quite a bit tighter. When I've got a bit of time I think 'll change it...obviously there's limited scope for manouevre, but it might help a bit.
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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 8, 2006 18:27:47 GMT
John, can we see some pics of your cigar box guitars please? I didn't know about your guitars!
Shine On, Michael
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