specs (of Lightening and Blues resos)

[Deleted]

First of all Hi everyone.

I have some questions (no surprise there
I've searched but can't find the info I'm looking for.

What are the scale lengths of the Lightening and the Blues?

What are the widths at the nut (I've seen two different values for this)

If its too wide for me, would it be possible to request a narrower neck? if so, how much extra would it cost?
(I personally find 44mm about right for me, 45 is getting a bit wide, but I can manage fine on a shallow neck. 46mm would be pushing it unless the profile was just right, and 47mm I think would be too much for me.)

And finally, roughly how long should I be expecting to wait if I ordered one of these guitars ?

thanks

Col

[Michael Messer]

Hello Colb,

Welcome to our forum.

MM guitars are based on 1930s National guitars and therefore have the same specifications as original 30s Nationals. That is the whole point and reason for making them. Most budget priced resonator guitars are all over the place when it comes to specs' and therefore are not like real National & Dobro guitars to play.

MM BLUES & LIGHTNING: 25" scale length / 46mm width at the nut.

Unfortunately it is not possible to order a one-off with a 44mm nut.

If you do decide to order an MM guitar and you are not happy with it; as long as it is in perfect new condition you can return it to us and get a full refund. You would have to pay for the return shipping.

The soonest we could deliver an MM guitar to you would be mid January.

I hope that helps and answers your questions. If you have any more questions please don't hesitate to ask.

Thank you

Shine On
Michael.

[Deleted]

In case anyone else gets a surprise, I though I would mention that the second lightning I received - I wasn't happy with the uneven fingerboard on the first - had a (just over)25.5 inch scale not 25.

The sound was still great, but the sustain/response on the high e string was not so good - I guess maybe due to the extra tension ?

(FWIW, I returned this guitar as well due to this and other issues I had with it. So I'm now saving up for an alternative - anyone know somewhere near Edinburgh that sells Nationals ?)

Just a heads up that if 25.5 scale would be an issue for you, I guess you should double check the specs of the individual instrument with Robin.

cheers

Col

[gouranga]

Hi Colb.
Scayles in Nicilson St/ St Patrick's Sq in Edinburgh often have Nationals. I have seen a few there although it was some time back. Have not been in for some time. You could give them a bell first. But they can get them.

Take care. Awe the best.

Gouranga

[slidenpickit]

Hi Col,

I have sent you a Personal Message.

Regards

Chris W

[Michael Messer]

Hi Colb,

I am sorry that you were not satisfied with the two MM Lightnings that we sent you. I had a feeling from reading your first post that you would not find a resonator guitar easy to get on with, which was my reason for stating that we would give you a refund if you were not happy with the instrument.

Until this morning when I read your post I was not aware that you had received two Lightnings and neither of them were to your satisfaction. I guess MM Lightnings are just not for you.

We have now sold a few hundred MM guitars and apart from the occasional one or two, which is bound to happen, everyone has been very happy with their guitars.

I have never claimed to be manufacturing replicas of 1930s Nationals. What I have said is that within the realms of what is possible in our retail price bracket, that we have done everything we can to capture the tone, feel, playability and look of a 1930s resonator guitar. I have put my name & reputation on the line with these guitars and I believe we have achieved what we set out to do.

This is my forum and I could have deleted your posts, but that would defeat the purpose of everything this forum is about. It is a public meeting and discussion place that gets visited by hundreds of people every day. So it might appear that I am shooting myself in the foot by keeping this thread, but if I were to delete it, that it would be wrong. So I prefer to respond to your comments and leave the whole thing in public view.

Last week we sold an MM Lightning to a customer in South Africa. His email arrived just as I was asking Robin about your guitars. I asked Robin to forward it to me and I hope Cuan doesn't mind me posting his email on this thread?

Email reads:

Hi Robin,

Just wanted to let you know that my guitar arrived on Thursday.

I must just say that I was not expecting to get a guitar of such high
build quality. I was totally blown away and it exceeded all my
expectations. It is an absolute dream to play and I have received nothing but
compliments from (jealous) guitarists and non-guitarists alike. I
shouldn't be surprised if you start receiving more requests from South Africa and I shall
certainly be doing my bit to spread the word.

Thank you very much and please extend my best wishes and thanks to Mr
Messer.

Kindest regards,
Cuan


Colb, I do hope you find the guitar you are looking for and I wish you happy hunting.

Shine On
Michael.

[snakehips]

Hi there !

I'm from Edinburgh. Was that a "hint-hint" to me ?????

I know Scayles Music shop quite well, although when I was last in, about 2 or 3 weeks ago, I didn't recognise ONE member of staff - not one !! Have they been taken over ?
Used to have chats with many of the staff there and try out guitars - and check out what crappy resonator guitars they had. As a matter of fact, that is where I bought a "Vintage" brand tricone - the one where the neck banana'd in a matter of 6 months.
I tell them all the time that the guitars are never gonna sell if that have weedy strings on them and the biscuit is rubbing against the coverplate etc etc.

I have NEVER seen a real National guitar (or National Resophonic or a MM) for sale in that shop - and I used to go there quite regularly.

Think I'm with Michael one this one - not sure you are gonna be impressed easily, except with a vintage National. You got the cash to splash ? I might sell one.

[Deleted]

I'm from Edinburgh. Was that a "hint-hint" to me ??

It was an honest question, but I hoped you might answer, being local and all. I figure that if there's anywhere in Scotland that sells nationals/NRPs, you would know.
Scayles does still seem to be run by the same guy that's been in charge since at least the early 90s. Although he's not always there.

Think I'm with Michael one this one - not sure you are gonna be impressed easily, except with a vintage National. You got the cash to splash ? I might sell one.

I was really impressed with the sound of both the lightnings that I received - just other things were wrong for me.

I don't think I would be able to afford a vintage national yet - what kind of prices do repaired examples with replaced cone and or neck go for? Do you have anything you want to sell just now?
I think I'd probably be very happy with an NRP assuming the sound is as good as a MM Lightning.

Anyhow I'm keeping an eye on 'Tin Can Alley' to get an idea about prices.
I'm also hoping to go to London in the summer. If I haven't got anything by then, I'll head to Wunjo to try out some more MM lightnings and MM blues.

Btw, do you play any regular gigs in Edinburgh?

Cheers

Col

[snakehips]

Hi Col !

Edinburgh is crap for live blues gigs. There is one venue that operates at 12midnight to 3am. They do do a 6pm-9pm session on a saturday evening though. Not keen on the venue though (Whistle Binkies).
There used to be a great venue YEARS ago, called the Preservation Hall. Turned into an Irish theme bar long time ago though. Most pubs want a solo guy playing up-to-date tunes of the day - for next to nothing.
Got a gig Newcastle way on friday 7th May, at Lee Bate's Blues Club at the East Bolden Cricket Club. Will be playing at the Dundee Blues Bonanza again (Solo plus Duo - we were a Trio but the harp player is busy playing again in a band with John Bruce, great original guitarist from Blues'n'Trouble). To be honest, my bandmate and I aren't really looking very hard for gigs. He (Prof Scratchy) is supposed to be retired but works full-time, I've got a full time job and weekends too sometimes plus family commitments. Boy, its difficult finding time.
If I ever catch myself not having played a guitar for months at a time, I will be SOOOOO disappointed with myself. Just have to keep trying to find time to play. Went up to Aberdeen last weekend for the Blindman's Blues Forum charity gig for a Haiti fund-raising effort. Did some solo stuff taking turns with Dick Wardell, and then on piano later with Son Henry Band and guests (eg. Jerry Jablonski and Spider McKenzie) - till 2.15am !!
Edinburgh is disappointing though. Will keep you posted on gigs.

Nationals for sale in London ? Have minimum £2500 spare !

[Deleted]

I remember going to see Charlie McNair's jazz band regularly at the Pres... Big George and the Business as well... those were the days.
Whistle Binkies isn't the sort of place I would want to take anything remotely valuable

£2500. I wonder how much more it would be to get a custom neck on an NRP. depends on the import duty etc. I suppose.
...$ NRP guitar price + $300 for custom neck + $X for shipping + $X for import duty + $X for bandit courier extra fee

Thanks for the info Snakehips.

Col

[geoff]

Colb, there is a used Vintage Steel National tricone available from 2002 in the UK for somewhere between 900 and 1500 pounds. But you may want a single cone...

[Michael Messer]

Colb,

The two MM Lightnings that you returned to us because they did not meet your requirements are now both sold to people who are very happy with them.

Shine On
Michael.

[growler]

It never ceases to amaze me why some people have to have a 'Vintage' National ....... is it so you can impress us with your renditions , or attempts at getting that ' Vintage ' blues sound.............. cannot this be achieved with a new NRP or any other quality resonator guitar.
I myself would err on the advice given by Bob Brozman and Catfish Keith, ( unless you might be a better player than them) ..... their advice is to steer clear of them as they could come with a history of bad repairs that are going to cost you a price to put right .
We are living in age now where we are totally spoilt for choice when it comes to buying 'New' guitars, especially the excellent brand both Michael and Robin are offering . The latest brands that NRP are knocking out are excellent as well ........... so why bother yourself with searching for that elusive ' vintage ' National and all the problems that could come with it......... its your choice and money .
Finally , just to add what I mentioned earlier regarding choices in buying new guitars, I purchased a Chinese made electro acoustic bass from a dealer on the net recently . The price of this bass was £ 45 ' New ' ? I bought it ......if it was a heap of junk my daughter could have it , and I would put it down to bad judgement ........... the bass when it arrived , taken out the box, tuned up, is excellent , all it needs is a new set of acoustic bass strings on it. A fellow guitarist friend of mine played it reckoned the EQ on it was fantastic when played through the PA.

Spoilt for choice ........
Regards

Growler

[Deleted]

@ growler:
eh?
I'm assuming that was all aimed at me. If it was, then I also have to assume that you didn't read any of my posts.

Just to make it really clear I was very impressed and totally happy with the *sound* of the lightnings I recieved. I also love the look of the shiny new metal.
The problem for me was the quality control. I'm not going to go into details. I am satisfied that the service I recieved was very fair, and there are certainly no hard feelings on my part. If I can find an MM guitar in a shop that doesn't have the problems the other two had (or similar), I will buy it immediately.

Different people have different standards. Obviously the people who did buy the guitars I returned have lower standards than I do. Thats fine.

FWIW, I'm not a vintage freak. I would much rather have a new instrument. I can do without the responsibility for looking after a museum piece, and I can do without the higher maintenance issues that go along with one.
As far as sound, much of that comes from the player. But to the extent that it comes from the guitar, I guess that many of the recordings I listen to from guys like Blind Boy Fuller and Booker White were played on instruments that were new or only a few years old - so if I did want to emulate the sound, a 70 year old guitar would probably not be a good choice.

cheers

Col

[growler]

HI colb
Well it was'nt directed at you , I have followed this thread with interest as I do with most of the threads on Michaels forum . It is just I cannot see what is the fascination fellow guitarist have with wanting a 'vintage ' as opposed to buying one new from the fantastic range of guitars made by Luthiers and the highly respected brands you have nowadays.
I know it is a personal choice as its their money they are spending on it , but my opinion is ' not interested ' , In fact if someone approached me with a new NRP and a beaten up 'vintage ' National with a bent neck, tuners missing , scratched to hell ............. I know which one I would take....... that would not take a lot of working out .

I saw a very sad post a few years back on an American guitar forum, the thread was illustrated by photograhs of Nationals in various states of decay . I remember one of the photos was of a National in a very bad state of repair , which was supposedly buried in the save grave of a young American soldier killed in the last war . This was requested by the soldiers parents as the guitar was his 'Pride and Joy.'
What intrigued me and got me thinking....... If this request was carried out , as it was by the recent photograph showing the state of the guitar, why are we seeing a photo of this guitar, my conclusion being that someone being so desperate to get his greasy hands on a 'Vintage ' national ............... dug the poor chaps grave up to get at it.

Regards

Growler