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Post by zak71 on Jan 10, 2014 22:26:31 GMT
Talking of dentist chairs, i think patients pondering about purchasing guitar parts are furthest from their mind when they are in my chair !!! Turns out that I didn't have much time to ponder anything in the dentist's chair today. The doc took one look at my molar and scheduled me for a root canal next week. Aack. I was hoping to get away with merely having a filling replaced. Since you're a dentist, tell me a root canal won't be as traumatic as I imagine it will be! Off-topic: didn't you get one of those elusive rolled-f-hole polychrome Triolians? How is it? As for 1133s, they seem to be all over the map. I have played some that sounded terrible, and a few that sounded fantastic. It took a lot of nagging, but last year I finally managed to pry the best sounding one (a pink '64 without the pickguard badge) out of the clutches of a friend who had three of them. I suspect that the main problem with the ones that sound weak and rattle-prone is the pair of little brad nails that National used to hold the cone down (I am guessing since they were student models, the factory strings were probably on the light side, and didn't exert enough string tension on the cone to keep it from shifting around). The one thing the "good" sounding 1133s I've played had in common is that the brad nails had been removed, those guitars had noticeably more volume and bass. Those nails are quite tricky to remove without creasing the cone, too!
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Post by snakehips on Jan 10, 2014 23:26:48 GMT
Hi there !
Root canal treatment should not be sore at all -at least during treatment, what with good local anaesthetic injections. The common misconception is that often there has been pain beforehand - and that pain is going to take a while to disappear. You can take it !
I received the rolled F-hole 12 fret neck Polychrome Triolian in June 2013 and within days sent it to have a neck reset. The neck had a twist in it so it has been worked on, with a new fretboard. Still not got it back yet - but i am promised I will get it on Wednesday. So, watch this space. The US guitar shop I bought it from (via ebay) did not seem to know a lot about resonator guitars so I emailed them with a brief synopsis of how to package up the guitar, for international shipment - which I included advising to not tightly package over the coverplate - but try to leave space above it. The seller packaging guy put a couple of layers of bubble wrap in a large rubber-ring type shape over the body around the coverplate - so keeping the guitar case lid from caving in too easily. Unfortunately, he taped down the rubber ring of bubble wrap with 'effin GAFFA TAPE - directly to the paint finish ! Nice chunk of yellow paint down to the bare shiny metal came off while I carefully tried to remove the tape. Not impressed with the guy !!!
I've had a rolled F-hole 12 fret Duolian before - but just didn't gel with it (it was bought from Eskimo from the IGS Forum, for top dollar, having been promised it had had a neck reset by a top luthier - but it sounded crap. Upon opening it up at my preferred luthier's workshop, we found inside shrivelled-up, loose mushroom post&pads inside. My luthier stated that he would catagorically state his reputation on it, that this guitar had never had a neck reset. So having had paid top dollar for it in the first place - and having had to spend further money for a neck reset and refret, the guitar had lost favour with me a fair bit. Still didn't appeal to me too much after it was reset. Traded it with Lenny at vintagenationals for a mint 1931 Dark Walnut Duolian. Mind you, that one didn't do it for me either. So I sold that one (got good price) and bought a Hammond A100 and Leslie 142, and a used NRP M1 Tricone. Sold the M1 Tricone last january - and with that money, i bought this rolled F-hole 12 fret triolian, that I'm awaiting return from my luthier !!!!!). The green duco rolled F-hole Duolian i traded with Looks like the same one that is featured in one of marc schoenberger's you tube videos - the one about rolled f-hole duolians !!! Compare it with the one I had, it looks EXACTLY the same :
Anyway, getting back to 1133 resos and their cones, I have a YouTube video showing the one I had, with beard cone inside. It was an ebay purchase - and the seller did not package it up well. Arrived with squashed in coverplate. Cone was pressed down around the cone rim - so that the action was too low. I was able to alter the neck angle just enough to raise up the action enough to stop the strings buzzing on the frets BUT ended up with hardly any break-angle over the biscuit bridge. See what you think :
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Post by snakehips on Jan 10, 2014 23:34:23 GMT
Aargh !
How do you include the link to a Youtube page, without the video window being imbedded into this thread ? Just wanted to simply have it in my post as a link to click on.
While I think I could easily have got used to the shorter scale length of the 1133 (it just feels like a regular guitar capo'd on the 3rd fret or something), it was the very narrow string spacing that I struggled with. The sides of the fretboard are heavily rounded - and the fret ends are very bevelled - so that the actual playing surface of the frets is rather narrow - much narrower than the actual width of the neck. There is the potential to use more of the neck width with a new fretboard - but that is a lot of money and hassle to spend on a guitar like this.
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Post by zak71 on Jan 11, 2014 0:02:50 GMT
Physically, sure. It's the psychological part that's the problem. I have deep-seated dentist phobias. No offense to your profession...I blame my father who, in his infinite wisdom, made me watch the film "Marathon Man" with him when I was an impressionable pre-teen. You know the scene where Sir Laurence Olivier tortures Dustin Hoffman? THAT is what goes through my head. I received the rolled F-hole 12 fret neck Polychrome Triolian in June 2013 and within days sent it to have a neck reset. The neck had a twist in it so it has been worked on, with a new fretboard. Still not got it back yet - but i am promised I will get it on Wednesday. Wow, that's even longer than Marc Schoenberger yanked me around with my Style O! Hats off to you, sir, you are a patient man. Very sorry to hear about the finish damage - I remember that guitar looking very clean when it was listed on ebay nearly a year ago (I had it in my sights and you outbid me on it!), I have had similar experiences with ebay sellers myself. Anyway, getting back to 1133 resos and their cones, I have a YouTube video showing the one I had, with beard cone inside. It was an ebay purchase - and the seller did not package it up well. Arrived with squashed in coverplate. Cone was pressed down around the cone rim - so that the action was too low. I was able to alter the neck angle just enough to raise up the action enough to stop the strings buzzing on the frets BUT ended up with hardly any break-angle over the biscuit bridge. There's hardly any break angle with a healthy cone! Add to that the reduced tension of a short scale, and you wind up with a guitar where perfect set-up is of utmost importance. Perhaps that is the reason why a high percentage of them are duds. I suspect that's one of several reasons the original cones were nailed down. How do you include the link to a Youtube page, without the video window being imbedded into this thread ? You got me there - I really have no idea! I guess you can try leaving out the " http" and " www" part of the link, that way people would have to cut&paste what was left into their browser. While I think I could easily have got used to the shorter scale length of the 1133 (it just feels like a regular guitar capo'd on the 3rd fret or something), it was the very narrow string spacing that I struggled with. It's the same neck as the Valco "student model" electrics, they are pretty cramped if you;re switching from a proper National neck. I've been playing mandolin for a month, so now it feels almost normal to me. At first I found it pretty cramped, even by electric guitar standards, but I can get used to almost anything if I stick with it long enough. Youtube videos are a lousy way to evaluate guitar tone, but mine sounds like this:
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Post by snakehips on Jan 11, 2014 0:40:38 GMT
Hi again !
On the root canal thing, after the actual access cavity into the pulp chamber drilling has been done (but might likely involve removing all of the old filling), th Dentsit is VERY likely to switch over to a low power, small rechargeable battery driven electric motor drill, for the actual cleaning of the root canals. This type of drill goes very slow and is very gentle AND quiet, compared to the usual Dentist drills.
; )
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Post by zak71 on Jan 11, 2014 0:48:38 GMT
My old filling fell out on its own, and I will insist on sufficient Novocaine to make me oblivious to the outside world! Thanks for your professional assurances, it is something of a relief!
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Post by oscar on Jan 25, 2014 14:06:36 GMT
This is the first gig I played using only my 1133 (and a Stella banjo ukulele):
You can hear the very penetrating midrangy sound of that instrument.
Because of a very small stage we had to sit in a strange arrangement. We had one microphone for the guitars, one for the ukulele and the vocals and one for additional vocals. No pickups except for the bass ukulele. Not the best sound but one may get an impression how a 1133 sounds.
I had to stop using my Collegian because of shoulder problems (bike accident many years ago). Because of fhe shorter scale and the shallow body it now makes fun again to play. Only problem is string spacing (you can hear it quite a few times).
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Post by Michael Messer on Jan 25, 2014 15:06:35 GMT
Oscar, it sounds great. The band sounds good too. I had forgotten about Rag Bag, I used to do that song at gigs years ago. I also used to do gigs with my 1133, but it probably hasn't been on a stage for 20 years. I think the last time was with my National Breakdown Service in 1994. Maybe I will take it out again someday soon! National Breakdown Service (circa 1994) From left to right: Michael Messer, Stuart Cumberpatch, Dave Temple, Angelina Grimshaw (with my 1133), Ed Genis, Andy Crowdy, J.C. Grimshaw Thanks for sharing your film, it's great to see and hear what forum members are doing. Shine On Michael
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Post by oscar on Jan 26, 2014 16:30:14 GMT
Michael, thanks for your appreciation.
The picture of National Breakdown Service is very promising. Are there any recordings?
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Post by Michael Messer on Jan 26, 2014 18:18:27 GMT
Hi Oscar,
The MM's National Breakdown Service appeared in two lines over a couple of years. The next outing was in 1996, the band was a ten piece that time!
The band was filmed and recorded, but nothing was ever released.
The National Breakdown Service, along with National Gallery and various other projects, are all on my website.
Have you ever seen the CD booklet of my album 'Lucky Charms'? ...it is full of 1133 images.
Shine On Michael
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Post by charliechitlins on Jan 26, 2014 18:29:35 GMT
Snakehips...is that you on the Dust My Broom? Whoever it is, it's very cool!
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Post by snakehips on Jan 26, 2014 21:25:13 GMT
Hi there !
Yes, that is moi !
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2014 22:23:52 GMT
I've been keen on a 1133 for years- even been outbid on a few on eBay. Im always a bit weary though- particularly when they can sound quite different!
There's actually been one in a local shop for quite a while but the owner isn't for budging from a 4 figure price...bit annoying really!
Great to come across this thread though-some great vids too!
Ps I've also been down the root canal treatment- nothing to worry about!
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Feb 16, 2018 8:08:54 GMT
Resurrection time. I was pointed in the right direction and I now have a Valco 1133. Pictures from original online advert: Discussion with the 2Ms have identified this as one of the latter assembled 1133s from stock parts prior to the closure of Valco in 1968. The headstock logo is a later addition of a repro decal. It is in excellent nick and having been restrung with MM PB 15s. plays well and sounds good. The interesting thing to me is the difference in tone / sound depending on where the string is plucked on this guitar. I think we all know that there is a warmer sound when plucked near the neck than by the bridge but this little one seems much more sensitive. A small change of postion can make a marked difference in tone. Near the bridge it has that "listening to a 78rpm through a horn" sound - move towards the neck it gets much warmer and mellower. This is very noticeable, much more noticeable than on any other guitar or bass I have played and I like it. We'll see if this plucking position tonal variation continues as the strings bed in and age. I'm going to have a lot of fun with this one, I think.
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 16, 2018 8:54:50 GMT
PD, that is a lovely looking guitar in very nice condition. They sound great. When I first got mine in the 1980s I used to gig with it. I haven't done that for many years, but I have recorded with it on a number of occasions. It makes a great sounding rhythm guitar. Actually we are the 4Ms! MM and MM (Michael Messer & Mark Makin). Shine On Michael
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