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DI boxes
Mar 29, 2024 13:16:05 GMT
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Post by richclough on Mar 29, 2024 13:16:05 GMT
Looking for a bit of advice. I play an Ayers 12 fret parlour. Cracking all solid guitar with a K&K in it. Part of my set is a self written song which some might suggest is unduly influenced by RL Burnside and involves a percussive tap with my right thumb between chords. Finding that when I’m playing it through a PA it sounds a bit crap and the sustain is poor - sounds great acoustically though and rings nicely. This does not change based on how new the strings are. I use Newtone 12’s in phosphor bronze. Wondering if an active DI box that I can twiddle with would help? If so, any recommendations? Just to be sure…Is the percussive tap on the body/soundboard of the guitar? If so, the solution may involve doing a bit of experimenting to find the best point to tap - different parts of the body will get picked up differently by your pickup depending on the location of the tap, the pickup and the type of pickup (ie piezo vs piezo/mic). I did a lot of experimenting with this when I used to do looping. Cheers, Rich
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Post by twang1 on Mar 29, 2024 13:39:55 GMT
Hi Littlebobby, I used to have a small Ayer guitar, and it sounded great! D.I. box? I've been using the same one for the last 20 years, a Sans Amp acoustic DI. It is expensive, though, but very easy to operate. I don't want to spend time messing around with knobs and that unit has served me well: good sound and easy. It should sell for about € 290 at Thomann but a good second hand should be found for around 200. You should definitely check the used market for these kind of devices. Frank
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 29, 2024 14:28:51 GMT
Hi Michael, I mentioned the Orchid Electronics acoustic preamp as it’s hood but not too expensive- but also, it’s not overly complicated to use. Can the preamp you use be powered by Phantom Power, or do you have to use 9V batteries? I had a good look at the preamp’s website page but couldn’t determine if it can be Phantom powered or not. Lastly, I was confused on one of your last comments : “If you go into the PA with a jack to jack, rather than XLR like I do, you can also take total control of the volume.” Do you plug in with a jack or an XLR ? Thanks Hi Richard You can plug it in with either XLR or jack. XLR gives a direct DI signal and bypasses the on board volume, but not the onboard boost. Jack goes to a regular instrument input and gives you onboard control of the volume. Both are excellent, but DI with XLR is a better signal path for stability and clarity. It can be powered with mains or 9v batteries. Phantom power - 48v is used to power DI boxes and microphones and comes from the PA or mixing board, or these days from the computer. Shine On Michael
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Post by snakehips on Mar 29, 2024 15:30:06 GMT
Hi Michael, Thanks for the clarification on the powering of the unit, as I couldn't quite tell for sure on the preamp's online blurb. I'm in no way trying to argue mine is better than yours, either ! It's just as the features of each preamp are different enough, it's handy to know all the useful features of each - so that the original thread poster, Littlebobby, might tell which features suit him the best. I've had Fishman and Headway preamps before that had the types of controls that your preamp has - but I'm just no good with understanding how to use all that stuff - and I end up making things worse. I appreciated the simple EQ controls AND the ease that Phantom powering the Orchid Electronics preamp gives, without needing to worry about 9V batteries or remembering to bring the mains adapter plug to gigs. There is another potential, quite different solution that Littlebobby (and anyone else) could consider, that is also lower cost (but high quality) and perhaps the simplest solution : www.bax-shop.co.uk/acoustic-guitar-preamps/triton-audio-bigamp-piezo-in-line-instrument-preampI'm not sure which version of the Triton Audio inline preamps would be most ideal for using with a K&K bug pickup, as this one is designed for piezo-equipped guitars - but I think it should be fine. Plug your guitar into this preamp, with a regular jack-to-jack cable, and then an XLR to XLR cable to your mixer / PA system. However, for simplicity, you can just plug this preamp directly into your PA channel XLR input - so you don't even need an XLR-to-XLR cable ! Then, you can do any necessary EQ adjustments from your PA mixer channel as before, or let the PA sound guy do it all ! This preamp is also Phantom Powered. I have one and it is excellent. This preamp is very small & compact - It will fit in your guitar case compartment - it's about the size of a Diamond bottleneck ! You can still use your PA channel controls as before - so you won't have any new technology to have to learn how to use. There is another Triton in-line preamp, designed for magnetic pickup equipped guitars - but perhaps for your situation, the piezo one would be best. Here is the magnetic pickup preamp version - perhaps useful for soundhole and slim-line resonator magnetic pickups : www.bax-shop.co.uk/preamp-di-box/triton-audio-bigamp-in-line-instrument-preamp
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DI boxes
Mar 29, 2024 17:41:59 GMT
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Post by richclough on Mar 29, 2024 17:41:59 GMT
I still think that the root problem might be that the vibrations from the percussive part of the playing is not hitting the pickup in the same way as finger picking/strumming - and is therefore sounding weak. I’m not sure whether overall compression/eq changes to bring out this element of the playing won’t negatively impact the sound overall. Am interested to see the end result here…
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 29, 2024 17:46:46 GMT
Looking for a bit of advice. I play an Ayers 12 fret parlour. Cracking all solid guitar with a K&K in it. Part of my set is a self written song which some might suggest is unduly influenced by RL Burnside and involves a percussive tap with my right thumb between chords. Finding that when I’m playing it through a PA it sounds a bit crap and the sustain is poor - sounds great acoustically though and rings nicely. This does not change based on how new the strings are. I use Newtone 12’s in phosphor bronze. Wondering if an active DI box that I can twiddle with would help? If so, any recommendations? Could you show us a video of yourself playing this piece of music so that we can properly understand what you are struggling with. Just acoustic, not plugged into anything please. It doesn't have to be your finest moment, just a demo of what you are telling us. Shine On Michael
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Post by mitchfit on Mar 29, 2024 21:32:33 GMT
snakehips, the main difference between phone jacks and XLR jacks is two vs three wires. called unbalanced and balanced signal in that same order. it takes three wires to get the full signal. read--above and below the baseline. two wires will only capture one side of the baseline. if like me, you aren't a direct descendant of Albert Einstein, the math shown is of very little help. but the graphs should clearly show what's going on: digilent.com/blog/balanced-xlr-cables-explained/as far as dialing in the notch filter and fine tuning the midrange [acoustic guit main street] place the guit on a padded surface to isolate it from building/furniture vibrations. turn amp up slowly until reaching feedback threshold. then turn the notch filter until it cancels out the guit's sympathetic vibration Hz. then fine tune mids in the same way. the "acoustic chamber" of the venue and/or monitor locations will make slight variations in the guit picking up vibrations, but the instrument's sympathetic frequency will not be radically changed. hope that helps, mitchfit
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DI boxes
Mar 30, 2024 0:03:23 GMT
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Post by snakehips on Mar 30, 2024 0:03:23 GMT
snakehips, the main difference between phone jacks and XLR jacks is two vs three wires. called unbalanced and balanced signal in that same order. it takes three wires to get the full signal. read--above and below the baseline. two wires will only capture one side of the baseline. if like me, you aren't a direct descendant of Albert Einstein, the math shown is of very little help. but the graphs should clearly show what's going on: digilent.com/blog/balanced-xlr-cables-explained/as far as dialing in the notch filter and fine tuning the midrange [acoustic guit main street] place the guit on a padded surface to isolate it from building/furniture vibrations. turn amp up slowly until reaching feedback threshold. then turn the notch filter until it cancels out the guit's sympathetic vibration Hz. then fine tune mids in the same way. the "acoustic chamber" of the venue and/or monitor locations will make slight variations in the guit picking up vibrations, but the instrument's sympathetic frequency will not be radically changed. hope that helps, mitchfit I know the difference between balanced and unbalanced. Please highlight what bit of what I said makes you think you need to school me on that ?
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 30, 2024 8:40:36 GMT
I am sure that Mitch was just trying to be helpful.
While you and I know what cable is what, there may be others reading this thread that find the information very useful.
Shine On Michael
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Mar 30, 2024 8:47:47 GMT
snakehips, the main difference between phone jacks and XLR jacks is two vs three wires. called unbalanced and balanced signal in that same order. it takes three wires to get the full signal. read--above and below the baseline. two wires will only capture one side of the baseline. if like me, you aren't a direct descendant of Albert Einstein, the math shown is of very little help. but the graphs should clearly show what's going on: digilent.com/blog/balanced-xlr-cables-explained/as far as dialing in the notch filter and fine tuning the midrange [acoustic guit main street] place the guit on a padded surface to isolate it from building/furniture vibrations. turn amp up slowly until reaching feedback threshold. then turn the notch filter until it cancels out the guit's sympathetic vibration Hz. then fine tune mids in the same way. the "acoustic chamber" of the venue and/or monitor locations will make slight variations in the guit picking up vibrations, but the instrument's sympathetic frequency will not be radically changed. hope that helps, mitchfit I know the difference between balanced and unbalanced. Please highlight what bit of what I said makes you think you need to school me on that ? Calm down Richard. I, for one, am grateful for Mitch's posting - I now understand the reasons for using XLR instead of 1/4" jacks in different circumstances. Best, Uncle PD. PS - typed and posted before I read MMs post above.
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Post by obrienp on Mar 30, 2024 18:24:02 GMT
That Fishman may cost more than some of the Zoom acoustic preamp pedals but it is quite a lot less than the LR Baggs Venue DI and nothing like as ugly! I might look for a used one of those.
I have been using a Highway preamp/DI with my National because it runs off a 9 volt battery and will provide phantom power through a stereo cable to the Highlander. It also has an EQ section, mute and feedback filter. Apparently it is very popular with double bass, cello and violin players but I haven’t been blown away with its ease of use. Definitely a step up from the Highlander battery box but that Fishman really looks the business.
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Post by snakehips on Mar 30, 2024 22:55:13 GMT
Hi again !
Do you mean the Headway preamp ? I did a search for Highway - and couldn't find anything !
I have the small, older Headway EDM-1 acoustic DI preamp - but I can't seem to get it to send 9V down a stereo cable to power my otherwise working Highlander pickups.
Headway has just brought out a new, much larger 2-channel preamp, with a valve/tube in it, mains-powered. I did urge the Headway guy to design it with 9v output option for Highlander reso pickups (AND his own "copy" reso pickup systems) - but it was possibly too late in the design to production phase - and he seemed irritated at me requesting this !
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Post by obrienp on Mar 30, 2024 23:36:58 GMT
I probably do mean Headway! Sorry, I should go and open the guitar case before posting this stuff! It’s my age!
Yes, I have the smaller unit. The phantom power works OK for me but if there is any kind of interruption, like you accidentally pull the cable out, some sort of protection trips and the unit shuts down. It is then the devils own job to get it to reset. It is happened to me a couple of times live when someone has stood on the cable. It would be nice if they improved it.
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Post by mitchfit on Mar 31, 2024 2:10:41 GMT
snakehips,
it was not my intention to offend you. or anyone else for that matter. apologies if i did.
what got my dogs barking up the wrong tree was, "so you don't even need an XLR-to-XLR cable" as any other configuration seemed to imply a 3 wire to 2 wire conversion. a cure for a problem i'm not aware of.
hope you believe that i was only trying to help, not harm.
mitchfit
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Post by snakehips on Mar 31, 2024 12:08:25 GMT
The reference to not needing an XLR to XLR cable was specifically mentioned/explained - ie. if using the Triton audio in-line preamp, as you can plug it directly into the PA channel's XLR input socket, and just use your mono jack-to-jack guitar cable. Apology accepted !
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