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Post by schlumpfmeister on Mar 15, 2024 12:25:11 GMT
Here she is! Some readers might remember my inquires about a Duolian offer and repair I walked away from, and now I stumbled over a player grade Style 0 which I ended up buying. Enclosed are a few pictures. Some time in the past she has been owned by Lowell Levinger, he even posted a video with it on YT. I have bought it from Lennart Delissen who is an aspiring young Blues Rock player in Germany. I paid 3400€. For whatever reason the top plating is completely gone. The back is still intact. She was offered as a 1936, but given the SN B2788 and the signs of a pickguard mounting point I rather suspect her to be 1937 or even 1938? The original (?) cone is defect, she is equipped with a replacement cone which supposedly is from NRP. The neck is straight, the action good even for regular playing, I think the neck was set as there are some gaps below the fingerboard. The break angle looks ok to me. Right now she shows some light rattling/buzzing, which I suspect to be from the biscuit fixation. The sound is very mid-focussed, the Duolian I recently played was substancially more trebly (which I liked). I am considering to have it looked through by a specialist to get the best out of it. I am also wondering if I could get the original cone back into a usuable shape. Has anybody seen her before and can give some insights about her past life? This is Mr Levinger playing her. Thanks for hints and your interest! Best Andreas
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Post by snakehips on Mar 15, 2024 12:49:27 GMT
Hi there !
Not a lot of break angle over the saddle - although difficult to judge fully without having it in your hands. I’m sure the guitar would benefit from a neck reset. Unfortunately, that cone looks toast, to me ! All my opinion but I have tried to coax squashed cones back into shape (ones less squashed than yours), and while they you may be lucky and it holds up to full string tension for a while, it rarely sounds that good. A mew NRP hot-rod cone would be best.
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 15, 2024 13:15:19 GMT
Just a quick note as I am very busy today....
This guitar requires further investigation and more photos if we are to advise you correctly.
A neck reset, in theory is the way to go, but there may not be any more leeway to do that. The saddle looks like it is almost touching the handrest and therefore there is no more break angle to be had on this guitar.
Compared to the condition of the body the neck looks too clean, so I am "assuming" the neck has been rest and refinished.
The cone is too damaged to save.
The reasons for the buzzing-rattling could be a few things, so further investigation is required before offering you any advice. Maybe a video showing us around the guitar and demonstrating the problem.
Shine On Michael
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Post by schlumpfmeister on Mar 15, 2024 13:22:37 GMT
Yes, I was informed the neck had some overspraying applied in the past. Yes, the hand rest is bent in a bit bringing it closer to the saddle. Comparing the break angle to my perfectly fine Dobros I felt it was ok (if I increase the pressure the rattle seems to disappear though).
EDIT: Removed the video as the rattle is gone, see new post further down ....
Best AR
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 15, 2024 14:05:48 GMT
That is coming from the cone - whether it is coming from the shallow break angle, the biscuit join or the base of the cone is difficult to see from here.
The biscuit looks a bit crude and does it have paper packed under it. I can see something?
We'll get there, don't worry.
Can't do any more today. Post more pics and video, it's very helpful
Shine On Michael
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Post by schlumpfmeister on Mar 15, 2024 15:16:46 GMT
Ok, I took it appart and yes, there was a cardboard layer between cone and biscuit. Is this how it is supposed to be done? Why would I take hard maple for the biscuit and sit it on soft cardboard? It is an NRP cone and biscuit. Even this new cone is dent a bit, it does not sit perfectly flat. But the surface underneath is also not flat, the metal is cracked on 2 of the 4 posts. The post at the lower bout also shows extra glue at the bottom. It almost looks as if the guitar had taken a very serious hit sometime. The cone cover is also dented, not only the handrest, but the area where the handrest sits towards the upper bout it significantly dented inward. I think this can be fixed, but not so easily as it is much thicker material than what I had expected it to be. I ended up taking the paper layer out and built everything together. The break angle is less than before, the action is a tad lower, but guess what - the rattle is gone (maybe due to a bit more pressure from the biscuit fixing screw), and if anything, it sounds better than before, but I must admit that I am often betrayed by my ears either because I want it to be better sounding or because of the initial sensation. So we have to wait a bit until the dust has settled. EDIT: With my super elaborate :-) cardboard template utility I was able to measure a break angle at the g string if approximately 3.5-4.5° (4-5mm offset at a distance of approx 60-65mm). Pictures below. Thanks for your interest, Best Andreas
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 15, 2024 15:22:35 GMT
So that gasket has been put there to raise the string height. Without it there will be no break angle. I would recommend an expert National luthier looks at it and probably makes a new maple biscuit with that extra depth because I don't believe (from what I have seen in your photos) there is any more room for neck adjustments. The caved in handrest is not causing any problems, it is not enough to affect anything.
What is the gasket made from?
No more now, I have a gig tonight and I'm getting ready for that.
Shine On Michael
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Post by schlumpfmeister on Mar 15, 2024 15:27:25 GMT
The gasket is made from cardboard. Go for your gig Michael, this is more important. I wish I could be there! Thanks for your advise and expert knowledge.
AR
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Post by Mark Makin on Mar 15, 2024 18:57:43 GMT
I have concerns that this is a replacement neck made by NRP. The inlaid pearl banner logo is NRP style not quite the original 30s one. The serial number B2788 is stamped with dies that are the wrong type font for the B series stamps of the 30s and it falls into the B series list with B2781, B2783 and B2785 that we have recorded - ALL of them are Variation 8 SPADE HEAD headstock guitars. It also should have trapezium bar markers on the fretboard.
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Post by schlumpfmeister on Mar 15, 2024 20:39:35 GMT
OMG Mark Makin! Thanks for taking the time, I take the input serious! Here my thoughts: yes I since also found a pic from a Duolian with Chicago SN using serifed fonts, the SN on mine looks more like one from California. To my best knowledge the SN indicates 1936 or 1937, then variation 6 as I tend to think mine shows on the back and the headstock are correct, aren’t they? Here are pics from an almost identical 1936 that looks very similar, including headstock, logo, markers and all!? But not the logo, I agree. The other guitar logo is much more aged. And yes, I saw NRP headstock pics that looked a lot like the logo on mine. Putting an NRP neck on is generally fine, it it is priced and communicated accordingly. Putting the wrong SN on is outright fraud. If this is an NRP neck someone must have worked a lot with it, there are 4 binding repairs, and the playing side is totally rounded and worn. I am adding a close pics of logo and fretboard. Is there anything else I can do to shed more light on it? EDIT: I have sent an inquiry to NRP with a few pics to get confirmation from them on the neck / headstock. I will keep the forum posted. Thanks, best Andreas
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Post by schlumpfmeister on Mar 16, 2024 5:04:34 GMT
I have received an answer from Jason from NRP confirming that this is a replacement logo. He remember having sent one out for a 14 fret 0. He also thinks the neck looks original, he could not assess the fretboard though. I have since sent him the close up pics attached above but am waiting for response.
I also checked more images and I found that the famous 1936 Mark Knopfler Style 0 has the 2 palm trees right angled whereas the one I included a link to above which also was a 1936 and another one from 1936 I spotted in a German guitar magazine also from 1936 and this one all have 2 palm trees left angled. I am getting more and more puzzled.
Best Andreas
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 16, 2024 12:09:48 GMT
Hmmm....
Well spotted, Mark.
Shine On Michael
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Post by Mark Makin on Mar 16, 2024 19:50:42 GMT
Hi Andreas, I think you’re right. The neck is probably correct. It could be a ‘Variation 7’ with that back. I could accept the replaced NRP logo. I still think it is strange that, in a group of possibly 9 or 10 ‘spade head’ variation 8 Style 0s that one of them should be an earlier style 7 in that grouping of B series guitars
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Post by schlumpfmeister on Mar 17, 2024 8:32:28 GMT
Good morning.
I since also received a msg from Mike Lewis whom I will have do the necessary repairs, also confirming the likely to be original.
so let’s sum up the artefacts at this point: - player grade style 0 - neck likely original, logo recent - SN leaving some questions about neck/body combination Then it continues to be a player grade 0 and I am fine with it.
Next I will try to make a short vid showing the guitar and how it sounds in the current state, then I am tempted to understring and show the effect to see how the break angle will impact the sound.
If the impact is small I am tempted for now to just lift up the biscuit a bit, I think that I can do this myself (like the gasket, just with real wood and nicer made). The gasket was 1,2mm, I would lift up by 2mm.
If the break angle impact is very clear, I will send her to Mike Lewis for a real repair including neck adjustment and so forth.
Any thoughts? Best Andreas
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Post by bonzo on Mar 17, 2024 8:46:14 GMT
His Andreas. I think you have listened to the best advice from top people in the resonator world and have come to a sensible decision 👍 If funds allow to have the work done now, you will soon have an excellent guitar! 👌 Best wishes to you all, John
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