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Post by ricks on Mar 12, 2023 11:50:50 GMT
Have been following Jamess' builds with great interest, & admiration for his skills - following on from a post above, I'm curious as to the advantage or otherwise of making the neck/neckstick as one solid piece? It seems logical, & I'd think it would make the body-join inherently stronger than a jointed one, but if that were so, how come it's not done that way by commercial makers - anyone know?
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Post by neilm on Mar 20, 2023 12:58:40 GMT
Hi all
This guy is looking to send out his 2nd build to an accomplished player (that certainly counts me out) for some honest feedback
....maybe someone on here could take him up on his offer.
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Post by pete1951 on Apr 4, 2023 10:39:55 GMT
Well done jamess , brass should be much easier.
One problem might be the way the tabs are shaped on the brass cutaway version. Hopefully they will bend nice and square, the little curve ,where the tab meets the side, may not give such a nice bend as the sharp corners on the steel did.
Good luck
Pete
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Post by pete1951 on Apr 10, 2023 7:07:16 GMT
James’s has figured a way of getting a cover plate pressed WITHOUT any big presses or machines, very good work
Pete
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jamess
MM Forum Member
Posts: 6
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Post by jamess on Apr 24, 2023 18:51:14 GMT
Oooo I found my login info... hallelujah! I was thinking about starting a new thread so we could talk construction and materials but then decided to just keep it all in one place. It's only going to take me a couple of sentences to tell you everything I know about construction materials and thicknesses and how they affect tone. I have very little experience in that regard and with as long as it takes me to build these, the knowledge is going to come slowly. I'm told brass will be more mellow and warm and the thinner the gauge of steel you use the more bright, gnarly and lively the guitar. Ok it only took one sentence. Seriously that's where I'm at and at this point it's just hearsay until I build and/or play different ones and know for myself. I'm curious about stainless and how that will affect the sound (Mule claims it helps the low end but I haven't verified that yet). There is another claim that Mule makes that I sort of raised an eyebrow at but I can't remember what it was right now. Anyway stainless is heavy and stiff so not sure what gauge to use (I had a 22ga stainless top and back cut and it's coming next week so that may answer a few questions). What about aluminum? In my mind it seems ideal, low weight, easy workability and reasonable cost. There must be a reason you don't see aluminum ones. How thin is too thin for steel and brass versions? Anybody have a thin steel National they can fit a caliper in the f hole and tell me the thickness? I would love to verify what thicknesses were used for different models and get some opinions on how the differences affect sound. What do we think of doing the soundwell out of different materials than the body, has anyone tried that? If it's just the soundwell that gives the thin gauge mild steel versions the brighter more gnarly lively sound, what if I just put a super thin mild steel soundwell in a brass body? What gauge brass is the style O? I went with .032" thick brass on the one I'm about to try and build (sorry metric types). I went with that because when I calculate the weight of the brass version it comes out over 10 pounds with anything thicker than that. I had calculated the 20gauge mild steel at just over 9.5 pounds and that was fairly accurate (first one was 9.6 and the 2nd one is 9.2) so I think I can reasonably predict weight +/- 1/4 pound based on material type and thickness. .032" brass is almost 10 pounds calculated but it's also very thin material. I have a 2 degree neck angle on the 2nd build with a 1" deep soundwell. I'm tempted to just go flat on the neck instead of the 2 degree and keep the 1" soundwell which gives a shorter saddle on the biscuit. I feel like it would join the body better but might have issues with the strings too close to the cover plate. I guess I can control the height of the cover plate now so maybe that isn't a big concern. With a flat neck I may not have enough break over angle across the saddle. Speaking of saddles I'm starting to think my tail piece is too long and comes too far up the cover plate. If it was shorter I would have a tiny bit more break over angle on the saddle, not sure yet that I need it but more seems better. I think my headstock angle is too steep at 15 degrees, I am going to change that on the brass one, I don't need that much breakover angle at the nut. Pete you mentioned something about tapered sides, really interested to hear more about that. My sides are 3.125" all the way around. How do we feel about the mushroom posts? I'm sorta thinking that the back would vibrate better without them but maybe the mushroom posts help the vibrations resonate more. I haven't tried the mushrooms yet so I don't know. Ok that's a lot, but it's a good whack at all my thoughts and curiosity's for now. Looking forward to opinions on any or all of those things and anything else you want to drop knowledge on  . James |
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jamess
MM Forum Member
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Post by jamess on Apr 24, 2023 19:01:31 GMT
Pete that's a great point on the tabs of the cutaway version. I'm hoping that since brass is so malleable I can make them conform to my corian template when I bend them over... yeah, that's my plan so far. I sorta wish the 3rd one was still the same design so I could have a great comparison but I think YouTube would get tired of watching me make the same thing over and over with tiny changes just to learn something. Hopefully one day I'll just pop on a video and hold up a brass version that's all done so we can compare it to #2 (if #2 ever comes back).
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Post by pete1951 on Apr 24, 2023 22:03:47 GMT
A quick note on materials. National built guitars out of 3 main metals. Nickel-silver or sometimes called German silver ( though it does not have any silver in it) steel and brass. There are threads on the forum that discuss the sound difference.
In the late 30s they also produced some ‘fiddle edge ‘ models out of aluminium. People say these do no sound good at all.
There are also many wooden resos that are highly regarded
There are some on the forum who are MUCH more knowledgeable than me about this but I am stuck at home at the moment with time on my hands
Pete
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Post by pete1951 on Jul 4, 2023 9:27:45 GMT
More fun in building, much improved back shape, this time in brass.
Pete
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Post by pete1951 on Jul 17, 2023 6:45:13 GMT
Wooden binding and grill on a brass body! Well somehow James makes it work.
Hopefully the wood/epoxy/brass joints will stand the test of time
Pete
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Jul 17, 2023 8:37:42 GMT
Fingers crossed the different coefficient of expansion/contraction re brass and wood don't cause a problem.
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Post by pete1951 on Sept 12, 2023 12:18:44 GMT
Well he’s finished number 3 and it looks pretty good (
Not sure about the wood edges, maybe copper could have been used ? ( The body would have to have some highish temperature solder , then a lower melting point solder for the copper,). That said it’s a great piece of work from someone who up to a year or so ago had little experience of resonator guitars.
I still think he needs to sit down with a proper reso maker and talk about details, and also have a serious slide player compare his guitars with vintage and NRP models
Well done James.
Pete
Looked like he put very light strings on it, still sounded like a resonator but lighter than most would use
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Post by stevearcade on Sept 12, 2023 17:14:43 GMT
I've been following this channel since seeing it here. He seems like a really nice guy. Very self deprecating humour, which I like. His build look interesting and I like that he's not afraid to show his mistakes, trials and errors, etc, and seeing his growth and improvement with each guitar. I'm not convinced about this latest one either, but it's good that he's experimenting and thinking outside the box. Intrigued to see what his next one is. Side note: his woodwork and necks look stunning. I bet his conventional, wooden bodied guitars are gorgeous. He seems to really know and understand woodworking. I'd love to have a garage workshop like that to indulge in making things like this.
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Chuck H.
Serious MM Forum Member
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Post by Chuck H. on Jan 19, 2024 1:25:44 GMT
Where can I find the threads about the different guages and types of metals and their differences?
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Post by pete1951 on Jan 19, 2024 9:47:28 GMT
Where can I find the threads about the different guages and types of metals and their differences? Not sure there is one place where you can find this information. I know when I made a metal body ( this was before the forum started) I just measured the thickness of my National’s top and made the whole thing that thick( it turned out a bit heavy). Hopefully someone on the forum will have some specifications that will be better than mine Pete |
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Chuck H.
Serious MM Forum Member
Posts: 20
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Post by Chuck H. on Jan 20, 2024 2:15:14 GMT
Where can I find the threads about the different guages and types of metals and their differences? Not sure there is one place where you can find this information. I know when I made a metal body ( this was before the forum started) I just measured the thickness of my National’s top and made the whole thing that thick( it turned out a bit heavy). Hopefully someone on the forum will have some specifications that will be better than mine Pete Thanks Pete, I was just curious. I've been following James's videos and received some plans from him. In his plans he recommended using 22 ga. . His first two builds were 20 ga. , apparently they came out pretty heavy so 22 GA seems reasonable to me. I'm making mine out of 22 GA galvanized. I have access to it at my work. This is my first real guitar build, I've got a lot to learn but I believe I can do this. Still learning how to use this forum too, I'm not great with technology but I can learn. |
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