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Post by Stevie on Sept 28, 2021 14:48:13 GMT
I"m going to adopt the devil's advocate hat here (it's any normal hat but worn at a jaunty angle). I welcome ANY input that questions the status quo. Blindly going along with anything "because it is written" sticks in my craw. I have one yardstick- keep asking "why" over and over and you will inevitably expose any pseudo-religious unquestioning blind faith.
That said, the old saw "there's no smoke without fire" applies here as elsewhere and you knock someone's experience at your own peril, but I just cannot go along with "t'was ever thus'. If we all subscribed to that feldegarbe, we'd all be going to the seaside for the day by horse and cart. Or camel as still seems to be the case in some destinations ...
e&oe ...
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Post by bonzo on Sept 28, 2021 16:36:30 GMT
Hi Stevie you old devil you! I had you in mind as one of the guys who knows what they're talking about. A lot of your posts over the years have contained information that has gone way over my head but has been appreciated by others judging by replies. That said I didn't get the impression when I read this thread that anyone was being nqarrow minded about what might make a good resonator. Rather that most of the trial and error had been done at the beginning of its development by the Dopyera family, renowned as musical instrument makers of some standing. Others were also experimenting with ways to make stringed instruments (in this instance) louder. It was a new art and as such set benchmarks for those who followed. Of course there were bound to be changes and improvements over time, you only have to look at patents taken out to see minds were thinking outside the box as we might say now. As the saying goes 'on the shoulders of giants' is how positive change comes about. 'Don't re-invent the wheel is another that comes to mind! No offence is intended to anyone reading this, it would be boring indeed and a little bit dangerous if we all thought the same!
Best wishes to you all, John
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Post by Stevie on Sept 28, 2021 18:37:00 GMT
John, for me it's not about being narrow-minded as such. I just feel that one never knows what's around the next corner so never say never.
And, if I give anyone the impression that I know anything much about anything that's my fault! Most of the time I relay what I've seen, heard and yes- sometimes read. Doesn't make me anyone's guru by a country mile!
e&oe ...
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Post by bonzo on Sept 28, 2021 18:58:51 GMT
I'm not saying any more.
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Darryl
Serious MM Forum Member
Posts: 28
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Post by Darryl on Oct 1, 2021 10:08:10 GMT
So, returning to the original topic, thanks for everyone's advice - and the spirited discussion on construction materials (humour aside, I learned a lot). I've now completed the sound well. Five pieces of 1/4" birch plywood. I rotated each layer by ninety degrees to cross the grain. It's not perfect as I had to cut each layer with a jigsaw and (in the absence of a workshop) am doing this in my kitchen. But a standard cone seems to fit fine and has a couple of millimetres spread room all round. (As recommended, I'll use this National cone as a dummy during construction, but will install a superior model for the finished product.)
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Post by Mike lewis on Oct 11, 2021 17:57:56 GMT
Linkous , Its my opinion that National style guitars do sound better made with laminates , if you make a Dobro style guitar they can both work very well ,if you know what you are doing . My guitars ( fine Resophonic ) would not be cheaper if they were made out of solid wood (with the exception of solid Brazilian Rosewood ) I make my own laminates , some times the top is not the same mix of woods as the back& sides and they also vary if I am making a Dobro style guitar or a National . I have taken a lot of time gluing different species of wood together to find the sound that I find pleasing to my ears and luckily people seem to like them . All this takes me more time than simply cutting & planing a plank of maple as I have to make my plank first before I can start working on it .
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Post by linkous on Oct 11, 2021 19:53:12 GMT
Very interesting and impressive, Mr. Lewis, if possible I would really like to visit your work shop! So you glue the veneer layer by layer and press it into plywood? I guess you don't produce the veneer yourself?
But you understand that this discussion is essentially not about the production of custom built guitars (how many guitars do you build in a day or a week?), but about mass production. I don't think the subcontractors (Kay, Harmony, ..) that supplied the bodies to National at the time are sorting veneer layers, guitar by guitar? If you start from a stack of mass-produced plywood sheets, then you can work a lot cheaper than with a solid maple plank.
And so, because of that economic reason, we were formed to consider the sound of these plywood resonators to be the best. We are CONDITIONED. In such a way that when a solid wood reso sounds 'different', we tend to consider this different sound as bad (or not good).
To end with my starting point: Sometimes a certain sound is a consequence rather than a goal. Many people confuse facts and conditioning.
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Post by Stevie on Oct 11, 2021 23:08:43 GMT
Well I seem to recall that the thread was initially about a one-off build and in particular the conewell which is "essentially about" a custom built guitar, but has followed its nose as these things often tend to do.
That said I nonetheless subscribe (in an unqualified manner so far as guitar building skills go) to the more general principle of questioning things to flush out mêmes (should they even exist that is) as I have already intimated.
e&oe ...
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Oct 12, 2021 7:00:24 GMT
The sun is shining, the sky is blue, I'm alive and happy with my world and plywood guitar.
So my friends, let's just have a break from this daft argument/discussion about something we can do nothing about and on which we have no world changing influence and concentrate on something that the rest of us on this forum can relate to.
If you wish to continue your own discussion in an attempt to change the guitar world, then bu88er off to FB and do it there, please.
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Darryl
Serious MM Forum Member
Posts: 28
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Post by Darryl on Aug 13, 2022 14:03:37 GMT
Well, it's finally finished - sort of. I slotted the saddle, fitted the strings, and set this up as best I could from the advice here. It's far from perfect, but sounds lovely and is very loud. The action is a bit high past the 12th fret, as I wasn't sure what neck angle to use. In hindsight, I think four degrees, instead of two-ish, would have been better. Still, I plan to use this for slide, so can probably get away with a higher action. This has been my first attempt at a resonator, so there's been a lot of guesswork and false starts. I'm incredibly grateful for this forum as a wealth of good advice (and enthusiastic debate). Thanks to Michael Messer for the advice on parts and to everyone else who joined in Attachments:
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Post by bonzo on Aug 13, 2022 15:07:15 GMT
Nice one Darryl, very pretty guitar 🎸
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