Darryl
Serious MM Forum Member
Posts: 28
|
Post by Darryl on Sept 24, 2021 16:40:29 GMT
Thanks Pete,
I really wish I'd had this conversation a few weeks ago. Although I might make another, one day, this guitar was meant to be a one off. I've already bought the mahogany back and soundboard. Michael's analogy of a speaker cabinet makes perfect sense, as these are designed to contain, focus and project sound - not affect it, so I can see how a resonator would require a similar environment to perform well.
I'll press ahead with the materials I have and hope for the best. With luck, birch dowels between the sound ring and back bracing will provide sufficient stiffness and the mahogany will lend a pleasant warmth to its tone!
Darryl
P.S. The fretwire, nut, dots, and truss rod all arrived today - tomorrow I begin making sawdust!
|
|
|
Post by bonzo on Sept 24, 2021 16:53:27 GMT
I am the proud owner of Pete's mdf lap steel pictured here with one of his Ekos conversions. Solid and stable,stays in tune and can be worked easily by someone who knows what they're doing.(Pete). Don't want to join this discussion on the merits of solid wood against fabricated substitutes but I have read many times about treating a reso body like a speaker cabinet. I own and have owned some seriously high end speakers all made from mdf. A wood veneer is applied for a decorative finish sometimes although paint finishes are also popular. I think maybe this is an each to his own thing, let's have a good discussion but don't really need comments about reso police do we? Best wishes to you all, John
|
|
|
Post by bonzo on Sept 24, 2021 17:04:14 GMT
Hi Darryl. I was posting while you were! My comments were not intended to influence your decision in any way and my post was mostly an excuse to show off two lovely guitars. Good luck with your project, lots of pictures please.
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Sept 24, 2021 17:38:25 GMT
I find this discussion a little out of date and pointless, because the answer is common knowledge and has been for as long as I can remember. Over the years and decades in conversations with most of the world's leading authorities on resonator guitars, it has always been agreed and actually never opposed, that laminate is the material to use. This doesn't mean using the cheapest plywood from your local DIY store, it needs to be made using the correct laminates and direction of grains as the pieces are sandwiched together.
As Geronimo (Jay Silverheels) said in the wonderful 1950 Western, Broken Arrow, ..."I walk away" and he was right.
Shine On Michael
|
|
|
Post by bonzo on Sept 24, 2021 17:48:36 GMT
If that arrow was ply it never would have broken Michael....sound of tumbleweed. I'll get my coat đ¤đ¤¨đđđ¸
|
|
Darryl
Serious MM Forum Member
Posts: 28
|
Post by Darryl on Sept 24, 2021 18:06:30 GMT
I am the proud owner of Pete's mdf lap steel pictured here with one of his Ekos conversions. Solid and stable,stays in tune and can be worked easily by someone who knows what they're doing.(Pete). Don't want to join this discussion on the merits of solid wood against fabricated substitutes but I have read many times about treating a reso body like a speaker cabinet. I own and have owned some seriously high end speakers all made from mdf. A wood veneer is applied for a decorative finish sometimes although paint finishes are also popular. I think maybe this is an each to his own thing, let's have a good discussion but don't really need comments about reso police do we? Best wishes to you all, John View AttachmentBoth guitars look great, John. (I particularly love the whacky design on the square neck. ) And thanks for your advice. Darryl
|
|
|
Post by bryanbradfield on Sept 24, 2021 20:36:26 GMT
The late Mike Auldridge was the undisputed master of tone and taste in the spider bridge dobro world. His signature Beard guitar, which was a few years in design and development by Mike and Paul Beard, was made of plywood. It was, I believe, the most expensive dobro in the Beard line at the time.
|
|
|
Post by lexluthier on Sept 25, 2021 0:19:47 GMT
Hi! So, the guitar you see in my thumbnail icon thing is a Gold Tone Paul Beard signature series PBR-CA. The point is itâs made of solid woods with a laminated sound well.(A non laminated or solid wood sound well would be madness and just asking for trouble!) What Mr Beards thoughts were when designing this series is unclear, I do have a vague memory of them being spoken of as being âsweeterâ in tone and a more for intimate settings or for the solo player to enjoy. Whatever.
Mine is âsweetâ, some may argue insipid if they heard it, itâs certainly not a canon! Listeners tend to like it a lot in a small room when itâs being tickled to produce an airy Ballard or the like. Ask it to step up to a bigger room and some manhandling and it would be lost and certainly easily drowned out by other instruments. Thatâs kinda counter to what resonators supposed to do.
Resonators were made to project and Pete is right, itâs about stiffness! (Good)Plywood resists vibrations keeping the sustain more in the cone instead of bleeding off into the body. Internal reflection is also better, for the same reason.
None of this is to say that a laminated body canât sound âSweetâ because they can of course, and at higher volume too. Perhaps my biggest surprise when I first started handling resophonic guitars was that they were nowhere near as brash and treble-y as I had thought they were going to be and so a body made stiffer and more internally reflective to promote more highs when âdigging inâ, makes perfect sense to me. Itâs part of the designs concept.
Plywood to make furniture is, on the whole, cheaper than solid woods. Laminates to make guitars can be more expensive to produce than the cost of many solid woods as they need to be made from scratch to the requirements of the instruments and from quality materials. I would wager if we were to ask Mike Lewis or any quality maker if they use proprietary birch ply to make their instruments or if they painstakingly produce their own, with all the work that entails, Iâm pretty sure I know what the answer will be. And if I am right about that, youâve got to ask yourself why would they bother. The answer comes pretty quickly without too much deep thought.
Chris
|
|
Darryl
Serious MM Forum Member
Posts: 28
|
Post by Darryl on Sept 25, 2021 6:51:09 GMT
That's actually quite reassuring, Chris. I'm not a professional musician and play simply for my own pleasure. I also have neighbours either side to think about. So, if I can achieve the unique tone of a resonator without the volume they were originally designed for, then I can disguise my ignorance as careful planning! It'll be an interesting experiment in any case.
Thanks,
Darryl
|
|
|
Post by linkous on Sept 25, 2021 7:33:13 GMT
I have yet to meet the first woodworker, cabinet maker or luthier who makes his own plywood sheets, but I can't wait to visit his workshop!
You can purchase plywood in a hundred types and qualities. Depending on the number of layers, thickness of the layers, gluing and types of wood, the options are: birch, pine, poplar, mahogany, beech or.. all kinds of tropical junk.
Have you ever think about what happens after a hundred years with plywood? How do glued layers from 1930 evolve (taking into the glue quality of that period)? Yes, indeed, about the same as the other glues on a guitar of that age. That this affects the sound needs no explanation. But no problem, because I've talked to just about all authorities on resonator guitars over the past decades and they all assured me that this was also the intention of Mr. Dopyera..
|
|
|
Post by Pickers Ditch on Sept 25, 2021 7:39:42 GMT
|
|
|
Post by pete1951 on Sept 25, 2021 8:44:56 GMT
To fuel the controversy ( controvercy? ) Pictured is one of my favourite sounding resos. Though not as loud as some it is very sweet. The body is a 30s or 40s faux reso that I squeezed a 9 1/2â cone into. As (most) cheap guitars of that age , it is solid wood rather than ply. ( I canât remember exactly the material I used for the well, but it did involve a circle of hardboard with holes similar to a Dobro, and probably a 6 or 8mm ply ring. This was 30years ago) So my best sounding guitar is solid wood, yet I think ply is better? Life like guitars is full of contradictions, and there will always be more than one way to get to where you want to go. Pete
|
|
Darryl
Serious MM Forum Member
Posts: 28
|
Post by Darryl on Sept 25, 2021 9:10:49 GMT
That's a lovely-looking guitar, Pete. Understated, unpretentious, but loaded with character. It often strikes me as an inherent contradiction when you see high-end guitars constructed with expensive materials and mirror finishes but used to play unavoidably working-class genres like blues or folk. This looks like a workhorse with a real story to tell. If your woman 'dun left ya', this guitar's woman dun left it, too. Enjoy the weekend Darryl
|
|
|
Post by lexluthier on Sept 25, 2021 10:25:05 GMT
I have yet to meet the first woodworker, cabinet maker or luthier who makes his own plywood sheets, but I can't wait to visit his workshop! You can purchase plywood in a hundred types and qualities. Depending on the number of layers, thickness of the layers, gluing and types of wood, the options are: birch, pine, poplar, mahogany, beech or.. all kinds of tropical junk. Have you ever think about what happens after a hundred years with plywood? How do glued layers from 1930 evolve (taking into the glue quality of that period)? Yes, indeed, about the same as the other glues on a guitar of that age. That this affects the sound needs no explanation. But no problem, because I've talked to just about all authorities on resonator guitars over the past decades and they all assured me that this was also the intention of Mr. Dopyera.. Point 1. Try getting out more then, or google! How the hell do you think Gibson makes an ES range guitar for example, out of âplywoodâ? Point 2. Where did I mention woodworker or cabinet makers making their own plywood sheets? Point 3. âHave you ever think aboutâŚ..â Well yes I have actually, as have many others no doubt! Have you ever ââthinkââ about how patronising and self righteous you are? I doubt it.
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Sept 25, 2021 10:50:03 GMT
One more comment before "I walk away" again from this thread.
I know three luthiers that make their own (laminate) plywood to build resonator guitars. Generally they are quite secretive about exactly what woods are used and in which direction the grain goes on each layer. It is really incorrect to consider plywood in these applications as a cheap and easy to use alternative to solid wood.
Linkous, you do seem to have the ability to come on here and create a bad vibe. This seems to happen every time you join a conversation. Let's try not to turn this into a free-for-all and stay friendly.
This time I really am doing what Geronimo did in the film, Broken Arrow...."I walk away"
Shine On Michael
|
|