Passively breaking in the cones?

[2big2b]

This is in continuation of my 2004 Johnson JM-991 lemon thread that I though might be best as a different discussion.

It occurs to me that metal cones and speakers share some similarities. Having worked on vintage tube amplifiers I am familiar with discussions about breaking in new replacement speakers. I can recall advice that one can just plug in a new speaker and output a constant stream of audio, say from a radio, through the amp for a day or two. I believe that probably works.

I am also familiar with the discussion about cones needing to settle in. So I wonder if I could synthesize "playing in" the cones by pumping loud music at my resonator by setting it in front of say, a powered mid range speaker or bass woofer. My thinking is perhaps I could force some subtle metal fatigue onto the the working surfaces of the cones, which would also tend to seat them better.

Has anyone here experimented with that idea?

There are so many contradictory discussions comparing National vs. Beltones vs. Continental cones - none of which are very convincing to me. There are discussions that Chinese tri-cone copies don't compare to genuine high end Nationals. There are discussions that Recording King RK-991s are better than Johnson JM-991s. I doubt that.  Arguments are proposed that because of quality control there is significant variation in the production line quality between any two specimens of the same run. I question the degree in validity of that idea. No two identical things are really ever identical anyway. Identical twins are still individuals. Such arguments seem to to be subjective and prone to the bias of vanity. I think it is all a lot of voodoo. 

I will not argue that a Martin D-28 is inherently different from a high end Lawsuit copy. But they both sound great. I might argue that you cannot expect two identical Martin D-28s are the same either. So what? There are variables.

My first Johnson JM-991 - as I remember it - sounded more responsive in complex tone and volume than my new one, which frankly has probably sat in its case under someone's bed untouched for the past 17 years. The difference in sound, as I perceive it, has been based upon my playing the heck out of it in standard tuning. it was used before I got it. Already played in.  Comparing this new one with dead factory strings against its predecessor in Standard tuning is probably futile. Drop tuning it to Open D, it suddenly seems to have come to life.

I am seriously considering planting it on a stand facing my 30 watt Peavey Delta Blues tube amp w/15' speaker combo amp , running some good thumping music source through it for a few days. It would be something to do while I wait for the new set of (backordered) MM 15's strings for it.


I wonder if that would be productive.

[Pickers Ditch]

Don't bu88er about, just play the bl**dy thing constantly.

That way you 'run in' the cones (if that's what's you believe is required) and get much needed practise all at the same time for free.

... and regarding 'good' and 'bad' guitars... IMHO it doesn't matter what name it's got on the head stock, which magic mushroom forest the wood came from or any other desk top warriors opinion on the matter, if it feels comfortable and sounds good when fitted with decent strings to you the player, then it's a 'good' guitar - end of, unless you're out to impress your mates instead of yourself.

[pete1951]

I remember a device to ‘age’ standard acoustic guitar tops, ( had a quick look on YouTube but couldn’t find anything guitar related when I put in vibrator ) Most musicians feel guitars ‘open up’ with playing so I guess resos are similar?? The device was almost noiseless ( I think) so might be better for the people next door.
Pete

Many modern Dobro (rather than National) players change their cone regularly ( so I understand) to get the sound they want.

[2big2b]

What I argue with myself about is whether my first JM-991 indeed sounded so much better than its replacement, or if it just my imagination. The lens of time can exaggerate things. We have all been there. But I believe that strings aside (but hardly dismissed) I have to wonder if it is just a matter of breaking it in. I maintain that my first one would amplify ambient sounds a lot more. If so, that might explain why I notice a difference when I compare standard vs an open/dropped tuning on the new one, making it come more alive. I am thinking that the cones are stiffer on the new one. I still don't know if I am comparing apples to apples or not. For all I know, the first one was set up and tweaked with upgraded cones that I am comparing against a stock unplayed-in one. Its not like I am trying to mimic a different guitar here. That is an exercise in futility.  I am not so obsessed with trying to do that. I just want to hear it ring. I am trying to recapture how I think my first one sounded - which is a more reasonable exercise.

Pete, that's an interesting idea of using some sort of vibrator, probably applied directly on the bridge, as something that would be productive. Or is that just more voodoo? Maybe I will try to experiment with that idea.

^{Why is there never a good vibrator around when I need one ?!!}

[2big2b]

From a sidebar with Michael I came to realize this:

The pressure that governs the response of the cones is actually a function of the tension of the strings bearing down on the T-bridge. Hence it probably explains why I notice a pronounced difference in resonation by dropping tension through using an open tuning. That is probably a better approach to take in playing-in a brand new set of cones. By tuning down the pressure on the cones I would expect that it would reduce their stiffness and break them in faster. I wonder if using open tunings has any long term effect on cone life ?


Or am I way off base here?

[richclough]

Hmmm...string tension might be part of it, but the other point with open tunings is that strings are tuned to the same note in different octaves and are within the same key so share harmonics.

You will get sympathetic resonanance as strings vibrate in concert with other strings e.g. play the low D only on a DGDGBD tuning and the other d strings will start to vibrate as well (not just the d strings though these are most noticeable). You can see them do it, not just hear them.

I also get this on my acoustic in open vs standard. I think it is far more noticeable on my resonator though.

With standard tuning there is far less power to any sympathetic resonance.

[2big2b]

I think you are right. It is both.

Meanwhile the more I play my tri-cone the better it sounds. Go figure.