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Post by dustybroom on Sept 6, 2021 22:18:19 GMT
I recently purchased a brand new National after spending about a year researching options. I was really impressed by their stellar reputation for quality and the loyal community of happy customers, so I saved up A LOT of money and bought one. When it finally came (after months of waiting) I was really disappointed to see that it didn’t look like the picture on the National website. Don’t get me wrong, it was still nice looking, but not like the one they’re marketing on the website. The finish was much darker, the pickup (slimline) was sticking up about 3mm on the bass side, the neck had a prominent imperfection in the wood (the neck on the website was beautiful), the tone knob was crooked and the tuners were awful (literally the worst I’ve ever encountered). I was able to bend the tone knob so it was mostly inline with the volume knob and push the pickup down so it didn’t stick up as much, and even though the tuners we’re stiff/jumpy and made loud clicking sounds they did eventually get the strings in tune and hold them there. I played it for a few days and loved the tone so I decided not to make a fuss and just accept it as is. Fast forward 3 months and the neck started to twist and pull away from the body (I play open G 99%, and standard 1%). I sent a picture to National and they agreed that it needed a warranty repair. They were quick to answer my emails and very pleasant but let me know I had to pay the shipping out to them, which from the east coast was $221. Who expects their customers to pay $221 to get a warranty repair? I paid the shipping because it was that or pay a local tech for a neck reset, but I asked to be reimbursed. After some back and forth (they became less friendly at this point) National agreed to give me $95 toward the $221 shipping cost, which left me $126 out of pocket on a 3 month old guitar, but I’ll take it. It took about a week to get there, arriving on a Wednesday, and they had it back out the door to me the following Tuesday, which I really appreciated. The neck is now set and the action is great, but the tuners seem even worse, not sure how that’s possible. I think I’m going to have to replace them (any recommendations?). So, am I just the unlucky guy that got a rare lemon or have others had issues too?
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Sept 7, 2021 8:41:21 GMT
Not very impressed, paricularly the bit where you have to pay extortionate return postage to get something fixed under warranty. With regard to your tuner problem, have you checked that the nut and the saddle have been cut properly and that the strings are not snagging in the slots? Maybe opening up the slots a gnats cock and a touch of pencil lead rubbed into the slots may help - just a suggestion. On the other hand, if new tuners are the only solution and needed then I think that the cost of these new ones plus their fitting cost should be borne by NRP. Just my tuppence worth. BTW - Welcome to the forum. PD
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Post by Michael Messer on Sept 7, 2021 9:18:11 GMT
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Post by Stevie on Sept 7, 2021 11:26:56 GMT
NRP are probably no different from any other organisation in that they will obviously have ex-works prices. Not many folk are going to be too charged up about (eg) NRP loading the basic price in addition to the original inflated despatch cost if the customer should be located in Europe, Asia and so on, just to make provision for any return costs.
If a choice is made to buy from another country and the seller or manufacturer has a representative in your country, go with that and take the inevitable price gouging on the chin, because they will have already allowed for such unforeseen overheads in their pricing. I kind of think that NRP have been reasonable in offering to go semi-Dutch on the return shipping. That said, I'd feel just as peeved if I'd had the same experience, but I'd grind my teeth because I know what the implications of buying across international borders are. I do hope that you can come to a satisfactory resolution- I've just got my devil's advocate hat on here!
e&oe ...
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Post by bod on Sept 7, 2021 11:55:55 GMT
…. If a choice is made to buy from another country… e&oe ...Not so sure this was a purchase from another country, talks of shipping costs in dollars from the “east coast” - aren’t NRP in California (west coast)?
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Post by Stevie on Sept 7, 2021 12:12:34 GMT
Good point well made D.
e&oe ...
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Post by dustybroom on Sept 7, 2021 12:29:35 GMT
Thank you all for your responses. stevie, I’m in Massachusetts and NRP is in CA so I’m about as far away as one can get and still have domestic shipping. I do get your point though. I just added a video of the tuners. I know it’s hard to diagnose over a short video but I figured it was worth a shot. @pickers ditch, thank you for the suggestion. I emailed NRP this morning to see what they think. If they tell me to piss off I’m going to try your suggestion. If that doesn’t work I’ll follow Michaels advice and look for some waverlys.
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Post by Michael Messer on Sept 7, 2021 13:10:59 GMT
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Post by dustybroom on Sept 7, 2021 13:28:44 GMT
I put a drop of 3 in one oil on each and using a string winder worked it in pretty good. It did seem to help a little. I haven’t tried the oil you suggested but I’ll definitely give it a shot.
Thank you again for all your help!
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Post by snakehips on Sept 7, 2021 16:16:01 GMT
Hi there !
The cosmetics of the neck knot is an issue, with such a translucent & light coloured neck finish. This is a cosmetic 2nd, in my view (the neck). On the tuners making noises when you use them - sounds like it could be the strings too tight in the nut slots. Did you put heavier strings on the guitar after you got it - or were/are the original strings still on the guitar ??
NRP’s tuners are not great BUT can be improved with lots of oiling the gears, when the strings are off - turn the buttons like a hundred times in each direction to get a couple of drops of oil worked into each tuner cogs & worms. Consider doing this with the tuners removed from the neck, to prevent oil/lubricant getting on the neck finish itself.
I highly recommend the Stewmac Golden Restoration tuners
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Post by dustybroom on Sept 7, 2021 19:25:53 GMT
snakehips, the strings are the exact ones the guitar ships with but I do think there is an issue with the nut too. It’s crazy to me that NRP had this guitar in their shop for a neck reset 2 weeks ago and still sent it back not right. Am I crazy or is that a bad sign for future quality control? I also think you’re right about the neck. NRP wouldn’t put that on their website and shouldn’t have sent it out to me like that. I reached out to the retailer I bought it from (online purchase) and they want NRP to send me a replacement guitar. Based on all the issues I think it’s pretty clear that it just wasn’t built right. I have to thank you all for guidance and support, it was the validation I needed to get off my ass and try to remedy the situation. I’ll let you know how it turns out.
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Post by dustybroom on Sept 7, 2021 21:31:44 GMT
Update - NRP said the neck is typical for their guitars and not considered blemished and that the tuners are fine but they’ll send me new ones.
Michael, would you use a neck like mine on one of your instruments? Would it affect the price?
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Post by Stevie on Sept 7, 2021 22:12:42 GMT
More decades ago than I care to admit, amongst a few other minor calamities (!) I commissioned a Tele body to be made at a high profile establishment in Richmond, West London. When it came there was a 25mm knot taunting me through the blonde finish. I still look at it with disparity today! Of course I queried it at the time and I got the old shrugged shoulders routine. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose n'est ce pas? Based on the account of this particular NRP instrument, I think it's sad that we should still encounter such a cavalier attitude regarding the timber flaw. Up until now, I have tried to see NRP's point of view here, but for a premium priced instrument compared to (eg) a superb MM guitar with industry standard back up at 1/3rd the price, I reckon I'm flogging a dead horse.
I wonder what Don Young would have said?
e&oe ...
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Post by Michael Messer on Sept 8, 2021 8:40:15 GMT
Update - NRP said the neck is typical for their guitars and not considered blemished and that the tuners are fine but they’ll send me new ones. Michael, would you use a neck like mine on one of your instruments? Would it affect the price? Dustybroom, NRP and I are in two completely different markets. My guitars sell for around a quarter of the price of National guitars. However, any guitars with a cosmetic blemish are sold as B-stock. It happens very rarely these days because I make sure that my manufacturer pays attention to quality control. Shine On Michael
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Post by purpleorange on Sept 8, 2021 9:52:59 GMT
I don't think the knot is a is a real problem, wood is a natural material and it is going to vary from piece to piece. It wouldn't be a problem if it was under a painted neck so why should it be a problem if it is under a varnished neck? It is at the back of the neck and no-one will notice it when you are playing.
I have a painted neck on my NRP and I have always suspected the paint would hide a few more blemishes.
The tuners aren't perfect on the NRP guitars but they are quite adequate with a bit of oil on the gears and some graphite on the nut.
The finishes can be quite different from one NRP guitar to another so it is best to get pictures of the actual guitar you are buying before purchasing, unfortunately that is not possible when having one built for you.
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