|
Post by richclough on Jul 15, 2021 14:12:43 GMT
Does it make you want to play it? If so, good guitar. End of. 🤪
|
|
|
Post by linkous on Jul 15, 2021 15:56:55 GMT
There's nothing wrong with a cheap, Chinese guitar, I think. Unless it's wrong to call the guitar by name, which is:
* Chinese * A copy * Cheaper than the original
Think carefully about who feels inferior because of these qualities.
|
|
|
Post by bod on Jul 15, 2021 17:19:16 GMT
‘Cheap’ seems to me an unfortunate choice of word, if one does not intend to suggest an element of inferiority, as that is one of its meanings. If one simply means inexpensive or relatively inexpensive that seems a happier term.
‘Copy’ - well, yes, but aren’t all guitars of this type made today copies?
Less expensive than an original? This might not be so straightforward: Are we talking, so to speak, in ‘real terms’ (new price then adjusted and compared to new price now) or in today’s market (vintage vs modern)?
In ‘real terms’ some of today’s copies are, I believe, very expensive compared to the originals. Likewise, some of today’s copies cost several times the price of others. Some may be worth the difference, others may not.
Country of manufacture may condition cost, not sure that it necessarily impacts quality.
|
|
|
Post by bonzo on Jul 15, 2021 17:31:55 GMT
Nicely put bod. 😊😎👍🎸
|
|
|
Post by Pickers Ditch on Jul 16, 2021 7:02:12 GMT
‘Cheap’ seems to me an unfortunate choice of word, if one does not intend to suggest an element of inferiority, as that is one of its meanings. If one simply means inexpensive or relatively inexpensive that seems a happier term. ‘Copy’ - well, yes, but aren’t all guitars of this type made today copies? Less expensive than an original? This might not be so straightforward: Are we talking, so to speak, in ‘real terms’ (new price then adjusted and compared to new price now) Based on todays US Government inflation data: 1931 National Triolian - 1931 new price was U$45.00. Equivalent price today? U$805.00 1936 Dobro M-32 Fiddle Edge - 1936 new price was U$32.00. Equivalent price today? U$626.00 Rough average price of "mass produced cheap Chinese partial copies" today in the USA is US750.00 from what I can see on t'net. Interesting figures, think I, considering modern manufacturing techniques and materials. Best, PD
|
|
|
Post by linkous on Jul 16, 2021 7:15:57 GMT
‘Cheap’ seems to me an unfortunate choice of word, if one does not intend to suggest an element of inferiority, as that is one of its meanings. If one simply means inexpensive or relatively inexpensive that seems a happier term. ‘Copy’ - well, yes, but aren’t all guitars of this type made today copies? Less expensive than an original? This might not be so straightforward: Are we talking, so to speak, in ‘real terms’ (new price then adjusted and compared to new price now) or in today’s market (vintage vs modern)? In ‘real terms’ some of today’s copies are, I believe, very expensive compared to the originals. Likewise, some of today’s copies cost several times the price of others. Some may be worth the difference, others may not. Country of manufacture may condition cost, not sure that it necessarily impacts quality. Yes, I know, for some people the term 'cheap' is a bit sensitive, preferring to use 'less expensive', especially when talking about their own possessions. Those same people don't care where anything comes from, unless they're talking about someone else's stuff.. Yes, I know, for some people the term 'cheap' is a bit sensitive, preferring to use 'less expensive', especially when talking about their own possessions. Those same people don't care where anything comes from, unless they're talking about someone else's stuff..
|
|
|
Post by linkous on Jul 16, 2021 7:30:12 GMT
Based on todays US Government inflation data: 1931 National Triolian - 1931 new price was U$45.00. Equivalent price today? U$805.00 !936 Dobro M-32 Fiddle Edge - 1936 new price was U$32.00. Equivalent price today? U$626.00 Rough average price of "mass produced cheap Chinese partial copies" today in the USA is US750.00 from what I can see on t'net. Interesting figures, think I, considering modern manufacturing techniques and materials.
Best, PD
Also with regard to the working conditions of a current Chinese worker, the comparison with those of the United States from 1931 is certainly interesting..
|
|
|
Post by Pickers Ditch on Jul 16, 2021 7:46:16 GMT
I take your point - and accounting practices, investment methods and tax systems perhaps should be considered, too?
It's a complex subject both from a technical and social point of view so let's not get into politics; this is a bl88dy good guitar forum and it's up to us to keep it that way.
However, my view is simple: if you like the guitar and the price is right then buy it and use it.
Don't play one upmanship games with your instrument or talent, music is for enjoyment and it's not a competition, whatever the TV companies might think.
My last comment on this thread, methinks. Best, PD
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Jul 16, 2021 8:06:29 GMT
This subject can be danced around for days, but it still doesn't justify the fact that Linkous, knowing I import guitars from China, wrote this on my forum. "For you perhaps a good choice between either: a fake Mule patina or a cheap Chinese copy that will always be considered a cheap Chinese copy, even after thirty years?" .....because (A) they are not cheap copies, and (B) all resophonic guitars built by NRP, Mule, MM, Gretsch, etc...etc... are copies of the only real Nationals ever made, these are the ones made by National in the 1920s and 1930s.
This is not a place for politics to be discussed and I will delete any threads that go anywhere near a political discussion. However, I will say that all the people involved in building MM guitars are well paid, well looked after, skilled craftspeople, that enjoy and are proud of their work. I know them all by name and I have met some of their families.
I hate having bad vibes on this forum, but I also don't take well to such comments as you made.
Shine On Michael.
|
|