Best place for a jack socket on a metal Reso.

[pete1951]

I have a Lace pickup to fit on a MM metal body. The pickup comes with an endpin jack, but because of the neckstick and the way they fit it is impossible to replace the old endpin with this type of jack.( I have in fact fitted this type to a metal body I made, but it was a well-less Dobro so no neckstick to get in the way) . The cable from the pickup will go through the F hole, but there has to be a hole somewhere else fo the jack (on a vintage instrument I would use the F hole)
Anyone have any ideas ?

I have thought of replacing the original strap button with a screw and putting the endpin jack below the neckstick/well , but this might cause the guitar to tip forward when being played standing with a strap.

[Stevie]

Pete I installed my barrel jack strap peg socket by removing the tailpiece block around twelve years ago. The pundits on here warned of imminent collapse but as a long since retired sheet metal worker it didn't make any sense to me at all, more of a "because it is written" kind of thing? All these years on and everything is still just fine and dandy.

You see, I looked inside with a dental mirror and there was a 1/4" gap between the end of the neck stick and the tailpiece block, so apart from the strap peg it clearly wasn't supporting anything at all. I suspect that the tailpiece block is only there to provide something to which to screw the strap peg, and a self tapper might probably achieve the same result (if just a little crude in comparison?) Then once I had removed the tailpiece block, a further inspection with the mirror revealed a conical depression in the end of the neck stick, presumably where a long series drill had bored right through the tailpiece block and bumped briefly against the end of the neck stick? Clearly no screw had ever penetrated that far whether intended or not, and any way if it had it would have been in the end grain of the neck stick ...

I had to saw about 3/4" off the end of the neck stick to provide sufficient clearance for the strap peg barrel jack socket. (That needed to be a stereo to carry the phantom power required by the mic.) Sawing off the end in-situ was a curious and drawn out undertaking achieved by snapping off a hack saw blade in a vice and a great deal of perseverence, but I got there in the end.

There was absolutely zero change in *T*O*N*E* and indeed MM provided an unsolicited complementary comment about its' sound at TT's school (which was with MM and Manish Pingle).

I hope this gives you food for thought. For all the effort involved, I feel it is well worth it to preserve 99.9% of the original look of the instrument. YMMV of course.


EDIT: I think I replaced the tailpiece block with a short, say 3" long piece of extruded aluminum angle with probably 1/8" "legs". I'd have to go inside to confirm that. I'd forgotten all about that until I wrote all this. The aluminium angle gave support to the nut on the jack socket. I had to linish a curve along the extrusion edge to sit snug inside the guitar. It took a bit of planning and alignment, and I reckon a bit of brass angle would have been better now I think about it.



e&oe ...

[bonzo]

Hi Pete. Am I missing something, is there a particular reason you don't want to put the jack in the traditional lower bout position. On a non vintage guitar it would seem a better option than messing around dismantling the inside. How does MM have it done when he supplies guitars with pickup installed? 
Here's some pics, as I've mentioned before I pretty much use the wireless setup all the time.

Best wishes to you all, John

[Stevie]

This is why the effort was worthwhile.



But hey- it's (still?) a free country and plenty of ways to skin a cat!

e&oe ...

[Michael Messer]

Pete, We fit dozens of pickups to MM Guitars.

I don't have a metal bodied one here this morning, but I do have a wood bodied MMB28 with a pickup installed.

The pickup goes on with very strong double sided tape and there is a hole drilled next to it for the cable to run through. We stopped doing the "cable through the F holes" a while ago as it is untidy. The jack socket goes perfectly in the position I have shown in the photo. While I do agree that Stevie did a great job, it is not necessary as you do not need to go anywhere near the tail-block





Shine On
Michael

[bonzo]

Ps. On my Lace pickup I took the endpin jack off and replaced it with a regular (solderless) jack. Takes up less room.

[bonzo]

Like what you've done Steve, I have similar on other guitars. For me taking the inside out of a guitar is beyond my skillset!

Hey Michael, stop nicking my ideas! Lol!

[pete1951]

Thanks for the quick replies, Stevie has the most elegant answer, but I don’t want to cut the neck stick if I don’t have to. We shall see when I get my drill out next week!
Pete

[Stevie]

I didn't want to cut the neck stick either, but unless there's some resonance in the mass of the neckstick, it serves no purpose after the conewell screw, and I also suspect that "long enough is good enough". Excellent idea using a solder tag socket John, I just wanted to maintain the strap peg, even though I have never played it standing up. Not much of an audience in my middle bedroom / "music room" though!

I read somewhere that the barrel sockets can be unreliable.

e&oe ...

[snakehips]

Hi there !

I wouldn’t ever want to drill a jack socket hole in the side of a vintage National guitar. Thus, I put the jack socket in the round hole that’s part of the treble F-hole. No drilling required !
It’s almost as it it was made for it !!!
Right-angled jack guitar cable, and you are sorted.

I do have one NRP guitar (a GS Style 1.5 Tricone) that I installed a jack socket in the side.
Now, I wear thumb and finger picks when I play reso guitars, and change guitars often during a gig (eh, what’s that again ??).
I found that plugging a right-angled jack into the side of a guitar WHILE still wearing finger & thumb picks is really difficult !!!
So much easier (but not actually easy) doing it from a jack socket in the F-hole. Yes, I could take my picks off, BUT I don’t want to risk losing one mid gig, so I prefer to keep them on as much as possible.

So, IF you wear thumb & fingerpicks, BEFORE you drill a hole in the side of your treasured guitar for a jack socket, try plugging & unplugging multiple times, a jack socket into an acoustic guitar that DOES have a jack socket on the side, WHILE you are wearing your picks - and see if it’s gonna be a problem for YOU, as it certainly is for me !!

[bonzo]

Hi Stevie, I've got a few failed barrel sockets put aside for god knows why! I only have pickups so I can hear myself 'play' at home! I only have straps to stop the guitars from sliding off my lap should I happen to nod off while playing! 😊👍🎸

Yes Snakey, don't think we're talking about drilling holes in vintage Nationals! But a carefully positioned pickup and jack on a modern resonator guitar can be useful.

Best wishes to you all, John

[Michael Messer]

Just to clarify my point here...

The question was not about drilling holes in vintage Nationals, it was about drilling holes for jack sockets in MM Guitars. That is a completely different thing and if folks want to fit pickups in them, I see no reason why one wouldn't plumb them in properly.

I would never fit any type of pickup in a vintage National or Dobro, with or without drilling holes. I used to, but I haven't gigged with vintage Nationals for 23 years.

The F hole jack socket idea is an old one that we all used to do at one time. I actually think the first person to do that was Steve Phillips on his Don. I can't think of anyone before Steve that did it. The first magnetic pickup I saw on a National, well a Dobro actually, was Sam Mitchell on his Regal fiddle edge. I did the same on my blue M32 in 1983, but went a step further and had the jack socket and volume & tone pots properly plumbed into the guitar. I was 27 years old and it was nearly 40 years ago. Would I do that now, or even 20 years ago, NO WAY!

Shine On
Michael

[twang1]

In my wooden reso I had a luthier drilling a hole in the lower LEFT bout 7-8 cm from the strap botton (not your usual right bout).
I've never seen anything like it but to me it makes sense: the lead stays tight up there and if you play with the neck up in a semiclassical style you are not bothered by anything on your lower bout.
Frank

[pete1951]

May 25, 2021 19:52:59 GMT twang1 said:

In my wooden reso I had a luthier drilling a hole in the lower LEFT bout 7-8 cm from the strap botton (not your usual right bout).
I've never seen anything like it but to me it makes sense: the lead stays tight up there and if you play with the neck up in a semiclassical style you are not bothered by anything on your lower bout.
Frank

An interesting departure from the norm. I have a l/h Tele in for repair, I will see how it feels. The guitar I’m working on will get the more usually jack placing.
Pete

[thinline72]

Hi all,

I just want to say thank you to everyone in the thread for their advice. And a special Thank You to Pete who did a marvellous job of installing Lace pickup into my MM resonator and making sure that everything else in a good shape as well. He was a pleasure to work with!

And here is a pic of how it looks now. No more silly black tape and dangling jack!