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Post by paulsblues12 on Apr 27, 2021 13:07:54 GMT
Hello all, I'm new to resonator guitars and have purchased a nice gretch honey dipper I'm having a slight problem with the tailpiece lowering since I changed strings for slightly heavier gauge from factory to mm12s the strings were slightly touching the cone on the nearest edge to the tailpiece I was advised to slacken off the strings and gently bend the tailpiece up (which did work) until I changed the tuning from open D to standard E tuning which brought the strings back into contact with the cone surely this is not what is supposed to happen. Any help/info would be much appreciated. Cheers paul
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Post by pete1951 on Apr 27, 2021 13:57:30 GMT
A good pic would help. When you say “cone” do you mean ‘cover plate ‘, the shiny metal part with the hand rest that covers (what is usually called) the cone? Pete
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Post by lexluthier on Apr 27, 2021 14:01:39 GMT
Hi! It shouldn’t be possible for the strings to touch the cone, do you mean the cover plate perhaps? Chris
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Post by tigercubt20 on Apr 27, 2021 14:04:07 GMT
you mean its touching the coverplate ?. no big deal, most tailpieses, including the national style are somewhat flexible,you could put a piece of thin leather under it to avoid scrathes or rubbing on the coverplate. bending them by hand is not a good idea, they are made of brass, and you could cause them to develope fractures, on both types of tailpiece. another thing to look at is break angle. some people lower the action at the bridge and put light strings to make it easy to play, this ruins the break angle, and ends up with poor sound, and wont pull the tailpiece up enoughe. resonators are not at there best potential, when treated like an acoustic, or electrick guitar. i cringe when i see resonators smacked with a flat pick in standard tuning, they can duild up a lot of muddy clanginess when vigerously smacked with a flatpick, also check the cone, they can be easily damaged by lack of cone sympathy, resonator guitars are a whole different world. ive never had a problem with my honeydipper. apart from the neck being stupidly narrow. 15 to 56 mm strings, hi action, plastic fingerpicks equals more volune less string deflection,bare fingers less volume more string deflection, but a warmer sound. if heavier strings are causing the tailpiece to move down, then look at the cone to see if its collapsing. the only problem with the tailpiece touching the coverplate, if otherwise all is well, would be rattling or buzzing, bit of soft packing easy fix. hope this helps, look up break angle on the forum..jim
i should say 15 to 56 strings are not suitable for standard tuning, going from open tuning to standard would require a change of strings. i only use open tunings.
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Post by paulsblues12 on Apr 27, 2021 14:22:29 GMT
Opps sorry yes it must be the cover plate Thank you for your replies I am just starting to read them. Thank you in advance Paul
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Post by blueshome on Apr 28, 2021 7:26:08 GMT
Tiger cub: No need to change strings when you change tunings. Until recently I used 15-56 strings on my NRP Style 0, I’m talking 15 years of use and frequently changed from open tuning to standard at E without issue. I wouldn’t recommend tuning up to open E or A and leaving the guitar like that. A a side note, I’ve been using 12-52 for the last couple of years and this has meant that the guitar now sounds more like an old National, not a clue why.....
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Post by Michael Messer on Apr 28, 2021 8:02:33 GMT
Hello Paulsblues12,
Welcome to our community.
You should not need to bend the tailpiece on your guitar. The strings touching the coverplate are not a problem. But just to clarify and be sure of what we are all saying, can you post a photo of the problem.
Strings... Phil is correct that you do not need to change your strings when changing tunings. The 15/56 set is really designed for open D and G tunings, but is absolutely fine in standard. However, if you use standard more than open tunings, I would suggest using 13/56.
All these things are personal taste and preferences.
Shine On Michael
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Post by paulsblues12 on Apr 28, 2021 14:58:44 GMT
hello all,
thank you all for taking the time to answer my post
I have lifted the tail piece slightly so that the stings are not touching the cover plate ( not the cone lol ) I had a repairer friend look at it a few weeks ago and he said the rake was ok and the strings should not cause a problem touching the cover plate. And although I only play with thumb and try to finger pick and use a blue bottle glass slide there was an very slight annoying buzz from the strings rubbing the cover plate. I only changed the strings because the factory ones fitted were not in good shape so I put the mm12s on and all was ok until I found a song I wanted to learn that was in standard E tuning this is when the tail piece lowered again I take it because of the extra tension from open D to standard E . I will try the piece of leather to see if that helps preventing the buzz sound. I will try to upload a photo of the strings touching. thank you all once again for you replies great site.
paul
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Post by Stevie on Apr 28, 2021 16:27:08 GMT
If you look at the "double curvature" of the cover plate and juxtapose it to the plane but nonetheless still curve profiled leading edge of the tail piece, it seems clear to me that the D and G string ball ends will be sandwiched securely, but as you move towards the outer strings there is a potential for buzzes and rattles where the ball ends are not so entrapped (if at all). After many years, my own MMB has started to exhibit such a buzz, but I know what is causing it and it is under the jobs to be done list. Some folks suggest rotating ALL of the ball ends in these circumstances, and I believe there may be some mileage in that approach as opposed to introducing a leather dampener? I have never noticed a tuning change causing a change in the height of the tailpiece, but I suppose it is implicit if only varying in degree.
e&oe ...
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Post by paulsblues12 on Apr 28, 2021 17:35:48 GMT
I only noticed the lowering of the tailpiece when the strings started to buzz very slightly After tuning to standard E from open D It's not theball ends I will find out how to put a couple of photos on here to show where they are touching but thank you for your input. Paul
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Post by tigercubt20 on Apr 28, 2021 17:43:10 GMT
the tailpiece on the gretch, is different from the national type they are a straight through bar . the front edge of the bar would touch first before the ball ends, unless the bar trapeze is well bent.but i have an hypothesis regarding the popularity of biscuit reso guitars, aimed at players of standard tuned acoustic and electrick guitars. my mm blues is superbly constructed. to build a mass appeal reso with low action and light strings with a decent sound from the cone, you would need a decent break angle.many of the vast range of recent imports seem to be set up to cover the light guage low action, standard tuning players. putting 15 to 56 srings on these guitars is fine in open tunings, i would not take them up to standard on a gretsch, putting heavy strings on a gretsch and having the tailpiece go down when it should go up, indicates the cone going down. there are stories of cone callapse on some imports, i dont have any information on this,so i am speculating. my mm blues is an entirely different story, first guitar bought unseen, proper neck, proper frets,fine sounding proffessional quality instrument, at what i think is a budget price, it even smells good. the gretsch is a good guitar for 15 to 56 strings in open tuning. i would be carefull about going up to open e or standard with 15 to 56 strings. but i could be wrong, i usually am...jim
my argument is, that max break angle for low action. light guage, standard tuning, is fine for 15 to 56 in open tunings, but going up to standard with 15 to 56 on the same guitar wth that break angle could be over stressing the cone. but i could be wrong, again...and i have owned a honeydipper, and in open d with 15 to 56 mm strings, played vigerously with fingerpicks, with no problems, apart from the narrow neck.
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Apr 28, 2021 17:52:16 GMT
From what I remember hearing in one of our local emporia Gretsch recommend 12 gauge strings as a maximum or cone damage is likely to occur.
As Jim says, there have been numerous horror stories about collapsing Gretsch cones...be very careful.
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Post by paulsblues12 on Apr 28, 2021 17:53:51 GMT
Hi Jim, Ive put mm 12s on my gretch but as you say it's the strings in front of the front edge not the back edge where the ball of the strings go through. I like the description of your guitar. Cheers Paul
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Post by tigercubt20 on Apr 28, 2021 18:20:00 GMT
Hi Jim, Ive put mm 12s on my gretch but as you say it's the strings in front of the front edge not the back edge where the ball of the strings go through. I like the description of your guitar. Cheers Paul its an excellent guitar with a lovely haunting hollow sound. 15 to 56 mm phosper bronze strings, open d or low g a bottleneck on your pinky, or whatever finger suites, plastic fingerpicks, metal ones encourage scratches, at least the way i play. noodling becomes practice without practicing. the finest form of meditation. my only problem with the gretsch biscuit cone, and my gretsch boxcar spider cone, is the narrow nut. its a standard size, but i like a wide neck. my main advice would be play them, and buy some more guitars, why waste money on food...jim
of course if you have the string guages that suit you. go with that.
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Post by paulsblues12 on Apr 28, 2021 21:09:04 GMT
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