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Post by oldnewbie on Apr 22, 2021 15:56:57 GMT
Before I get told that I should have bought Michael Messer in the first place, I want to say that I have been, and for around three years now, an extremely satisfied owner of a MM Lightning. Which I love to pieces.
In fact I have previously been on this forum praising Michael, his guitars and his philosophy behind providing value-for-money resos for people like me.
Recently, however, I have begun to get fed up with re-tuning the Lightning between regular and open G tuning. Also I felt the need for the extra pop-and-rock facility that a fourteen-fret-join might give me.
Long story short, I fell in love with the Ozark 3515BE which, as well as being a beautiful guitar with Mark Knoffler style engravings (yes, I am that shallow!) also has a fourteen fret join.
On arival, the guitar looks even more beautiful that the photo. But it sounds like crap!
On investigation and comparison between the Lightning and the new incumbent it seems that new guy does not have the same biscuit bridge as the Lightning. The new guy has the identical set-up
but seems to be fashioned out of black plastic. What ?
At the risk of sounding stupid (hey, I'm a newbie!) I am hoping that the "plastic" is some sort of "packing" for transportation purposes; but everything is so well fitted and "convincing" (if you know what I mean) as to make me think twice. I have never seen it before.
At some point this guitar would, in any case have been going up to favourite Luthier in Sapcote in Leicestershire; but before that I want to do a bit more investigation. As you all know there is a cover over the bridge area. On the Lightning it is welded on. Nothing you can do. But on the new guy it is held on by four tiny screws. Whatever little I know about resos, I do know that only a fool would go poking around in the bridge area without knowing what they are doing. And I'm not that confident.
All I want to do is take this cover off and see what this otherwise convincing lump of plastic is.
Am I safe, as a first step, in taking the bridge cover off and poking around?
Comments welcome.
David
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Post by davey on Apr 22, 2021 16:53:45 GMT
Take the cover off, take a photo, and we'll all have a look at it. You're unlikely to do any damage.
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Post by pete1951 on Apr 22, 2021 19:12:44 GMT
The ‘black plastic’ is probably an ebony cap on a maple bridge, it is said to be too hard and an all maple saddle should sounds better. Ozark spend a huge amount getting their guitars to look ‘good’ but sadly less on sounding good. I have come across a few that don’t sound bad , but most are heavy,with a raised back that doesn’t look like a National should ( look at your Lightning back, not exactly a National but very close) . The cone in Ozarks I have seen have been very good looking ( a copy of a 30s National, similar to the pic on the resent ‘Tune-a-matic ‘ tread) but dull sounding.
A new Continental cone would improve things but the guitar will always but an Ozark . Pete
If you like the feel of it you could put on a magnetic pickup, through a good amp it should sound fine
It would be interesting to have some pics, they may confirm my thoughts or show my ignorance of the great work Ozark have done to improve their products since I last saw one.
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Post by slide496 on Apr 22, 2021 19:15:12 GMT
That sounds weird. Unscrewing handrest and taking a look is another option. Harriet
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Post by Michael Messer on Apr 22, 2021 19:59:29 GMT
Hello David,
I am pleased that you are happy with your MM guitar and I am most grateful for your kind words.
The Ozark is a difficult one because on the surface it does look good. Closer inspection and how it performs as a musical instrument are a whole other thing. Before I owned my own guitar company I used to write reviews for the glossy guitar magazines and one day I was asked to review the guitar you have bought. I spent a few days with the guitar at my home and I also did some research about how the company design and develop their products, and about how their quality control works. I also asked their "technical" people about the guitar I had in front of me - what was it made of, what was the idea behind it, who designed it and how was it designed...etc. Without going into detail, apart from telling you they weren't sure what it was made of, it was the 3515BE and the review I wrote, along with one or two other brands, that were the inspiration for me to start the MM Guitars company. They kind of had the right idea, all the components were trying to do the right thing, but the choice of materials and understanding of resophonic guitars was all over the place.
Pete is correct that a Continental cone and a decent biscuit/bridge might make it sound a bit better, but it will never sound like your other guitar. I think Pete is also correct about the ebony cap, which is really not a great idea on a National-style guitar, it is too hard and makes a thin and bright sound. If my memory is correct, the resonator is a good copy of the real thing, but it is not made of the correct material and therefore has no tone.
You are okay to take off the handrest and look at the biscuit and saddle. You can't do any harm by doing that.
The best copy of a 14 fret National Style O like Mark's in the UK, were the guitars imported and sold by Busker Guitars. They have the correct sandblasted design and a brass body with the correct construction features. I forget what the model is called, but it is a great guitar.
I hope that is helpful information, rather than just negative comments.
Shine On Michael
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Post by oldnewbie on Apr 23, 2021 9:15:01 GMT
Thanks to you all for your observations. I am learning all the time. I haven't yet taken off what I have just learned is called a "handrest"; and I might not bother in the end. (See below). I have however taken some photos with the handrest in situ and have tried to attach them to this message. Hope it works.
I have decided I might send the instrument back. It's under warranty. Still thinking about that one.
Having read your comments I can now see that the Ozark "thing" is just what Pete suggests it is. Two different pieces of different coloured wood. Probably. So plastic might have been better?
If I don't send the guitar back I will probably get my guy to replace the bridge with a more traditional biscuit/bridge and a decent cone.
So a question for Michael : Is it posible to buy exactly the same bridges and cones as are fitted on your guitars? I know this won't turn an Ozark into an MM, but it might be an improvement. Or would any improvement not be worth effort?
Thanks for your advice.
David
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Post by oldnewbie on Apr 23, 2021 9:20:18 GMT
Ooops ! Sorry, all those photos are upside down. But at least they got through. They will make more sense if you open them in Paint and rotate them.
David
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Post by thebluesbear( al) on Apr 23, 2021 9:22:14 GMT
Hi Everyone
The best copy of a 14 fret National Style O like Mark's in the UK, were the guitars imported and sold by Busker Guitars. They have the correct sandblasted design and a brass body with the correct construction features. I forget what the model is called, but it is a great guitar.
Michael I think you are referring to the busker sidewalk? perhaps i am wrong they are great guitars indeed
al
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Post by Michael Messer on Apr 23, 2021 9:45:19 GMT
David,
I am happy to send you a maple biscuit and box wood bridge saddle. If you PM me your address I will post one out to you. I don't need any money, it's on me.
Regarding the cone; yes it would improve the guitar, not greatly, but it would help. However, I do not sell cones or any accessories. This is because they are very fragile and it is too much faffing around packing and posting it. I only sell guitars.
Shine On Michael
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2021 9:46:13 GMT
Hi David That's the 'ebony' capped saddle then I believe. Depends what sound you prefer. Having said that and no offence intended (why some people take offence over inanimate objects I don't know), but if I were you I would take the rose tinted specs off, and send it back if you can. Cheers TT
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Post by bonzo on Apr 23, 2021 10:16:14 GMT
Hi David. Have to agree with deuce on this one. Unless you got the guitar for practically nothing I wouldn't spend any money trying to 'improve' it. Silk purses and pigs ears come to mind! You mentioned you could return it, that seems to be the best option, and the opinion of other forum members as well. I have the Busker style 0 previously mentioned, they do turn up occasionally and are a 'proper' instrument. Good luck with your efforts, whichever way you decide to go.
Best wishes to you all, John
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Post by blueshome on Apr 23, 2021 11:00:40 GMT
On the subject of plastic bridges, I recall that Roger Hubbard had a hard nylon bridge in his self-made reso. Sounded great. This was around 2004/5.
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Post by Michael Messer on Apr 23, 2021 11:38:28 GMT
Phil, There will always be the occasional exception to any rule, but I think that on a public forum where people come for advice, it is safer and correct to say that plastic bridge saddles are not the thing for resonator guitars.
Shine On Michael
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Post by lonelyjelly on Apr 23, 2021 12:08:21 GMT
I've played one of these Ozarks and I hope it's ok to say but I agree with the others ~ if you can return it then I would do that.
Best regards Lew
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Post by ken1953clark on Apr 23, 2021 13:36:18 GMT
My first resonator was an Ozark 3515BTE and, as a former employer of mine would say, it’s a “mugs eyeful”. It’s not great but it alright. The biggest problem for me was balance. The body is too heavy compared to the neck. balance it on your knee and let go, it will crash to the floor body first. This made it difficult to play because half your energy went into holding the guitar up and not into the playing IMHO.
You say it’s under warranty, that doesn’t mean they’ll take it back because you’ve changed your mind. As long as it’s as good as every other 3515 out there you’ll have a hard time claiming that it’s faulty.
If you can get your money back great, invest in an MM Blues 14, it’s steel not brass but will still sound better than lesser brands.
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