Don X-67

[hawgwash]

Hey I know I’ve read a bit on the subject of felt inside the guitar supporting the cone on some older National guitars . This one has that - I just took the cover plate off . It’s a ridiculously clean Don but doesn’t quite sound as well as it should - particularly the g string in open G - kinda dead compared to the other strings- there’s a pretty tall saddle - not too much break angle - just a little . So would it be recommended to leave it as is or get rid of that felt - I haven’t messed with any of this too much personally- I do have an excellent repair guy nearby -Bob Peterson -he’s done well with any Nationals I’ve needed work on - I’ll try to post a photo but the last couple times my I phone photos wouldn’t post I guess too large I dunno .i just noticed there’s a lot of green felt that was under the tailpiece when I set the cone back in and loosely put the cover plate over it just for overnight . One piece fits under the top part of the tailpiece and I guess I’d leave that there’s another piece that fits along the lower part I guess but seems unnecessary... effecting the tone also perhaps ...? 

Attachments:

[hawgwash]

Hey MM can you help me out on this one ..? I know I’ve seen discussions on this problem on the forum just can’t seem to find them now that I need to figure this out .

[Michael Messer]

Hi Hawgwash,

I only just spotted this thread!

Hmmmmm... felt gaskets under the cone are always the subject of much discussion. There is no doubt that talking it out will brighten the sound, but my view on this is to leave well alone. The gasket under the tailpiece sounds to me like it was put there because of a buzz/rattle. It does affect the tone in a minor way and if it doesn't buzz without the gasket, leave it out. Removing the tailpiece and bending the front edge down a little would stop the buzzing and is an easy thing to do.

Your dull string is likely not caused by the gasket, but from here it is hard to be sure. I can only guess. Not too much break angle is fine and unless absolutely necessary I would not adjust anything. You do have a very rare and valuable guitar there. If it is to be reset, do not go as far as a new NRP neck angle because it will cause all kinds of problems. The dull string might be a tight bridge saddle slot, or a tight nut slot. Whatever work is done on this guitar you must tread carefully and do things one at a time. I would advise you to write a road map as you go along and take photos, so that you know exactly what has been done, in which order it was done, and what affect it had on the instrument. With the road map, if you get problems you can go back and return things to how they were.

If you are talking about Bob Peterson of Angel Guitars, he is a well known, highly respected and renowned luthier. Bob knows his stuff, but the most notable National repairer in the US is Marc Schoenberger. Marc has worked on Dons and would know exactly what to do. Your guitar is, as you know, a rare and important piece and it should be worked on with great care.

I hope that is helpful. Anything else, please ask me. As you know I am happy to help and advise wherever I can

Shine On
Michael

[hawgwash]

Thanks Michael ! Yes that’s the Bob from Angel guitars - I’ll let him know you complimented him next time I see him . I’ll take the slow methodical approach as you suggest . Should be able to get this right - the cone is perfect- the other strings sounded much better but I’d have to say my other two both with new hot rod cones - well ones a NRP - sound better . I’ll let you know how it goes - this forum is a treasure of info as you must’ve intended .. bravo 👏

[Michael Messer]

My pleasure! ...and thank you for your kind words.

If the other strings sound fine and it is just the G that is dull, is is likely to be choking at either the bridge or the nut.

Keep me posted with your progress.

Shine On
Michael

[gaucho]

I thought that Marc was an advocate of the NRP neck angle?

[snakehips]

LOL !!

[Pickers Ditch]

Que? I don't understand....

[Michael Messer]

Vintage National guitars, if you wish to keep the original cone and sound, should not be given a neck angle as steep as the NRP specifications. It puts too much pressure on the cone because it was never designed to have that angle. If there does need to be an adjustment to create an angle, it should be a compromise to get the best out of the guitar without changing any components.

There is nothing wrong with the NRP neck angle, these days it is the correct way to build a resonator guitar, but originals were not designed with that specification.

Shine On
Michael

[Pickers Ditch]

Ah. Thank you.

[1928triolian]

Jan 15, 2021 23:48:59 GMT gaucho said:

I thought that Marc was an advocate of the NRP neck angle?

Marc Schoenberger restored a few Nationals for me, and when he had to reset the neck he always did it with the correct vintage specifications, no Nrp angles.

[bluesdude]

With a vintage cone the neck set should be like original meaning no removal of wood at the heal! with an NRP more tilt is required to drive the thicker cone!

Kenny,,,,,,,,,

[hawgwash]

Interesting enough all of this National discussion- great . My next step which maybe could’ve been my first step was to restring the guitar with MM phosphor bronze resonator strings -16-59 . Tuning up that g string I’m thinking wow it’s already ringing more than than before .. nahh no way . But sure enough like a shot of Geritol (no) that put the lead back in the pencil . Thing sounds great 👍🏻... I wanted to check the cone anyway but not really qualified to open one up especially an instrument like this one . How about that .. there’s an ad in here somewhere .. how do you spell relief ..? MM phosphor bronze ...