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Post by hh1978 on Oct 17, 2020 11:31:54 GMT
Hello,
I've been looking for a vintage cone to restore my 1930 Style O for years.
I finally found one for sale. Apparently it comes from a 1932 Triolian. I'm not expert to judge the condition from pictures, so I'd like your opinions.
I asked the seller for more pictures, I'll add them when he sends them to me.
Many thanks,
Hugues
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Post by 1928triolian on Oct 17, 2020 11:46:24 GMT
It seems to be in very good condition.
It could need some delicate thumb massages on some spots, anyway I've seen a good number of original cones looking much worse than this and still play and sound nicely!
It's always a special delight to find original 20's and 30's cones...
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Post by hh1978 on Oct 17, 2020 17:43:20 GMT
Thanks, I was lucky to find it. The seller was selling it as the original cone with a 1930's squareneck Dobro. Turned out that the Dobro actually has its original cone inside, and this one was taken out a 1932 Triolian several years ago. The seller agreed that he would sell the cone to me, as I pointed out the mistake, even though he usually wouldn't ship overseas. He asks 60$, so the price is really fair too  |
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Post by hh1978 on Oct 17, 2020 17:47:24 GMT
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Post by gaucho on Oct 17, 2020 22:51:07 GMT
In addition to the massaging it looks like it could use a little bit of leveling so it touches evenly all the way around on the bottom when sat down on a flat surface. This will sound like sacrilege, but I’ve had one sitting around for a few years waiting for the right guitar to put it in… I finally figured why not put it in my Republics Hwy 61 until I find the right National to put it in. I did and it sounds spectacular!
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Post by 1928triolian on Oct 18, 2020 8:45:50 GMT
Hi Gaucho, in my experience the pressure of the strings will be all that is needed to even that cone down! It's a very nice cone...
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2020 10:57:00 GMT
I “massaged” the original 1928 cone in my wood body triolian back into shape after years of abuse. It has a very weak and brittle tone The guitar sounds much better and louder with a new NRP cone...
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Post by hh1978 on Oct 18, 2020 20:41:34 GMT
Hi fredcapo, I'm totally conscious it could be a hit or miss but... All my National have their original cones, except my 1930 Style O. And while it's probably the best player of all, with my 1928 wood body Triolian, it doesn't currently sound as good as the others. The current cone is a National Resophonic, but the older style, not the hot rod. Part of the issue might be the biscuit itself (unknow make, made of a biscuit + loose insert saddle), but I will try replacing both. At 60$, I don't think I'm taking that much of a risk |
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Post by hh1978 on Nov 28, 2020 23:26:11 GMT
Finally took delivery of the cone.
Actual condition is even better than I thought. I installed it on the Style O, temporarily using the existing (non original) biscuit until I get the new NRP one.
The action is a bit low for my taste, and probably the break angle is not optimal, but even then, the sound improvement over the previous cone is quite noticeable. I always found that Style O to have a nasal midrange, and lacking both bass and treble. It's much more balanced now. With a better biscuit and a good setup, I'm sure it will be absolutely wonderful!
So thank you all for the help, much appreciated!
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Post by 1928triolian on Nov 29, 2020 8:59:01 GMT
Great, I was sure of it!
And it will go better day after day, especially with the definitive set up.
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Post by snakehips on Nov 30, 2020 18:11:32 GMT
Hi there ! Here are 4 of my "retired" cones. The worst one came from my 1934 Duolian that an idiot luthier in Edinburgh thought would be a good idea to glue inside the well with silicone sealer. When I sent it to Dave King for a neck reset (about 15yrs ago perhaps), he spent hours trying to get the cone out with damaging it - and I believe even Michael Messer was called in to help. Dave had to just yank it out it, in the end, rendering it unsuable after that. It ended up in my suitcase, between clothes, for the flight home from London, back up to Edinburgh ! I have had reasonable success massaging other cones back into shape - most recently with a cone from a 1935 Style O, which is all soon on it's way to someone else. I think I might just have another go on at least one or two of these four cones. The outer most section of the cones would sag too far, and certain areas would buckle out of shape with full string tension. Pictures show the top sides and undersides from : 1930 Style O cone (S618, all brass guitar) 1932 Style N cone (all brass guitar) 1934 Duolian cone 1935 Duolian cone |
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Post by gaucho on Dec 1, 2020 0:23:34 GMT
Rik Besser is really good at reshaping and even "tuning" old cones and making them usable again, if anyone is ever interested....
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Post by hh1978 on Dec 1, 2020 21:31:05 GMT
In Europe (Austria), Gottfried Gfrerer is also very good at that. I think he used to be a member here, BTW.
Great luthier, wonderful musician, and from Mike Lewis's word :"probably the most knowledgeable man in the world when it comes to wood body Triolians".
Richard, I know I already told you about him, but I thought the info could be useful to other members. |
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Post by snakehips on Dec 6, 2020 13:17:57 GMT
Update on my “retired” vintage cones.
So far, I have managed to get quite encouraging improvements on two of my cones, after having another go at reshaping them. I think I have a slightly better understanding of what I need to do.
My 1932 Style N cone is now sounding great back in it’s guitar - and way better than the NRP hot-rod cone that was in there for the last 3 or 4yrs.
My 1935 Duolian’s cone is definitely improved but I will wait and see.
My 1934 Duolian’s cone (that even MM tried to help Dave King with, over 15yrs ago) - well, this one has definitely improved but is still buckling under string tension.
Both Duolians have some treble notes that sound like there is a
coin stuck under the cone ! No doubt an area of the rim that isn’t sitting in the well fully, or a weak area of the cone.
They have both improved enough though that I’ll give them another chance.
REALLY chuffed with my Style N though. Sounds so much better than with the NRP hot-rod cone.
Overall, I think it was definitely worth another go at reshaping my “retired” cones.
My only issue is that all the cones, once reshaped are too tall !
Currently, the biscuits are so close to the underside of the coverplate handrests, that I’m having to string up the Duolians without their coverplates. Hopefully they will sink down a bit (but no more than they are supposed to).
Thus, I urge anyone with old National cones you gave up on, to have another go at them ! What you got to lose ?
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Post by hh1978 on Dec 6, 2020 16:25:45 GMT
Excellent! I would love to see a video of your Style N with the vintage cone, to compare with the older videos you have of that guitar with the hot rod cone |
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