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Post by charliechitlins on Oct 13, 2020 2:46:37 GMT
Hey...haven't checked in here for awhile. So...I almost love my Duolian. It had a pretty badly bowed neck and off it went to Marc Schoenberg (sp?) for the laying on of hands. Super nice guy and, for someone with his depth of knowledge and skill, his prices are super reasonable. That being said... He was apologetic, but he said that this was a very rare case where he just couldn't get it as straight as he (we) would have liked. The neck is, of course, huge and I believe it's very stable. I'm a pretty competent shadetree tech...not a luthier or woodworker by any means...but have done a goodly number of refrets and have been comfortable enough with my skills to take on some work for money. So...what about pulling the frets and just sanding out the bow with a radius block and refretting? Seems easy...I think. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't need so much that I'd sand through the dots. The relief is just a bit much, and I don't play the guitar as much as I might because I just don't enjoy it as much as I might. The only uncharted territory would be setting the action at the bridge. Frankly...I have no idea what's going on in there. Looking for suggestions...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2020 6:55:21 GMT
Maybe. How about adding wood to the fretboard in the bow and sanding the ends? Under the fretboard even? TT
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Post by Michael Messer on Oct 13, 2020 8:13:29 GMT
Hi Charlie,
I know you probably don't want to hear this, but if Marc Schoenberger couldn't do it, well....then my advice is to listen to Marc. Either keep the guitar as it is, or sell it.
Shine On Michael
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Post by pete1951 on Oct 13, 2020 8:56:36 GMT
I bought my Triolion in the 70s. By that time I was repairing guitars for 3 local shops, had done 20 or so refrets , made a couple of guitars and converted one to a resonator. The Triolion had a very bent neck, and I did my best to straighten it. It still plays well (with very good intonation) but my work left scars that will never heal. If Marc says that’s the best it’s going to get, take his advice. Or send it to Mike Lewis in Paris for a second opinion. Pete
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Post by charliechitlins on Oct 13, 2020 15:04:46 GMT
Im not sure if Marc couldn't...or just didn't. Interesting question. He didn't give me another option, just said it didn't get as straight as he would like. It didn't occur to me to ask if there was another option. Maybe it was implicit in the fact that he didn't offer another option, that there wasn't.
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Post by Michael Messer on Oct 13, 2020 16:23:51 GMT
My advice is still to listen to Marc.
Marc Schoenberger is among a half a dozen people in the world whose word on this subject I would take very seriously.
Shine On Michael
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Post by leeophonic on Oct 13, 2020 21:25:22 GMT
If I am not mistaken they are laminated necks, probably can only take it so far. It may be time to move the guitar on and find another that feels right as some guitars never quite make the grade.
Lee
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Post by charliechitlins on Nov 11, 2020 0:02:15 GMT
Yeah...if I leveled the fretboard, I think I'd lose critical down-pressure on the biscuit. If I can't get over it, I may refret with tall frets and level it that way.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2020 1:25:43 GMT
CharlieC...did Marc say what procedure he used on your Duolian neck? I once spoke with him about a project and he said he does a “Solar heat press” of the neck to straighten a bow. I would be interested in the details of that process is anyone here is in the know...
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Post by snakehips on Nov 11, 2020 6:37:04 GMT
Hi there!
He is out in California, yeah ?
I’d imagine this involves popping the neck into a device that bends the neck straight, AND leaving it outside in the sunshine !!!!!
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Post by biscuit on Nov 11, 2020 14:23:57 GMT
Maybe. How about adding wood to the fretboard in the bow and sanding the ends? Under the fretboard even? TT That's what Mike Lewis did to fix my Duolian. He had to make a new fretboard anyway, so he added wood underneath.
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Post by Mike lewis on Nov 13, 2020 8:43:23 GMT
Maybe. How about adding wood to the fretboard in the bow and sanding the ends? Under the fretboard even? TT That's what Mike Lewis did to fix my Duolian. He had to make a new fretboard anyway, so he added wood underneath.
True , I did add a little wood to fill the bow as deuce suggested but that photo is misleading as you can not see it . What you can see is were I had to scrape the sides of the neck/ fretboard to make the shape right before I retouched the color . Attachments:
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Post by charliechitlins on Nov 13, 2020 14:15:11 GMT
Hi there! He is out in California, yeah ? I’d imagine this involves popping the neck into a device that bends the neck straight, AND leaving it outside in the sunshine !!!!! He removed the neck, puts it in some kind of solar heater and applies pressure to straighten the neck. It stays in the device for quite awhile...I don't remember how long...maybe as long as 2 weeks. I would imagine the glue also softens under the fretboard and this adds stability to the neck when it hardens back up. He did a beautiful job. You have to look quite closely to see that the neck has been off. He said mine was about the worst case scenario in terms of results. Normally he gets a much more acceptable amount of relief.
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Post by biscuit on Nov 14, 2020 20:14:16 GMT
True , I did add a little wood to fill the bow as deuce suggested but that photo is misleading as you can not see it . What you can see is were I had to scrape the sides of the neck/ fretboard to make the shape right before I retouched the color . Dear Mike, thanks for the clarification. I would like to take the opportunity to thank you for making my guitar play and sound great again!
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Post by gaucho on Nov 16, 2020 13:59:40 GMT
I don't want to contradict what anyone else has said here... But I have '31 Duolian that was a basket case when I found it. Broken headstock, black spray paint... a mess. When I got it all together, it had a badly bowed neck as well. But it sounded incredible. I have 3 other Duolians (and a few other Nationals), but this one sounded the best! I really wanted to make it playable and I shopped it around to several of the best Reso guys in the US (including Marc) and they all said it was too far gone and wasn't worth spending the money on due to the condition of the rest of the guitar. My only option was looking to be a new neck (which just wasn't an option IMO). I found a luthier that built beautiful classical guitars and he said he could do something similar to what Mike Lewis mentioned above. I figured I had nothing to loose. He took off the old phenolic board (it basically crumbled), did a slight bit of planing on the neck and routed in a carbon truss rod (non ad)j. He then build a beautiful new, ebony fretboard that he compensated for the bow and fretted with new, vintage style frets. It now plays and sound FANTASTIC! and he only charged be $250!! I insisted that it was too cheap but he wouldn't take more! The only regret I have is that he (he thought the was doing me a favor) replaced the "plastic" fret dots with real mother of pearl that are a hair larger than the originals. It messes with my OCD, but I'll live with it! I would have never taken a chance like this with one of my other Nationals, which are all in very nice original shape. But this guitar seemed worth the risk. It remains my favorite! It's on the far right... Here's a recent Video clip to hear the tone...
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