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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2020 17:48:54 GMT
One or two of you may have noticed that I pop up on FB forums when someone is showing off their shiny dean thinline or fr50 etc. I may say something like 'it's korean' or 'not a great guitar' - I usually get rounded on big time too. I feel it's important to give an opposing view - maybe not for them, but maybe for 'noobs' perhaps thinking that buying that shiny heap of junk is the thing to do. No-one (exept the manufacturer etc) gains anything from the proliferation of junk guitars, and too many people on FB give out unchallenged bad advice.
Does anyone feel that being honest about junk guitars has any importance, or should I / we just let buyers make their own mistakes?
TT
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Post by bonzo on May 25, 2020 18:13:43 GMT
You know the answer to that TT! We've all bought our first 'serious' guitar, it's always better to assure yourself it's a good 'un than to convince yourself afterwards that it is! I don't do facebook, but we've all seen stuff for sale that isn't what it says it is.
Wasn't there a 'German silver' tricone mentioned the other week? Message from the luthier that built it saying otherwise helped in my decision making!
Who knows, you might get a following as the 'guitar guy.'Lol!
Best wishes to you all,John
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Post by tallsailor on May 25, 2020 20:53:09 GMT
I guess there's a danger of being thought some kind of guitar snob/smartass if you just throw out random putdowns, but if they're backed up with reasoned argument (It's Korean, which means ...'; 'It's not a very good guitar because ...') I don't see why anyone would object. By definition, mistakes aren't made on purpose. Being told you've made one is annoying; being told why you've made one is educational (as well as annoying  . |
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Post by Ian McWee on May 25, 2020 22:01:06 GMT
...and this is the exact reason why forums such as Michael's will always be head-and-shoulders above anything you'll find on any social media platforms.
The 'clientele' here and on other specialist internet forums actually discuss the pro's and con's of all resonator instruments / picks / strings / slides etc...knowledgeable musicians, resonator instruments & builders, professional recording & touring players who know what they're talking about ~ and clientele who LISTEN without resorting to mud-slinging & derogatory remarks - for sure, we don't always agree, but any disagreements are settled over a 'virtual pint' 👍
This difference is so noticeable on Social Media platforms ~ it's getting so bad nowadays that I usually scroll through 9 out of 10 postings on the handful of FarceBook slide guitar groups I've joined - mostly due to the reason T.T (a.k.a. deuce - we all know & love him 😉) has mentioned above.
When on the receiving end of some of the vitriol posted towards an informative answer or comment made on Farcebook or other social media platforms (e.g.."you don't know what you're f'n talking about" or "whadda you know - I know what I'm talking about ~ you dont know nuthin'!) - check out their profile....it'll be 80% guaranteed they've nothing to do with the music business, recording or building instruments.
....my claim to fame was on a FarceBook slide guitar page where I was informed I knew nothing about guitar slides - by a garden centre employee in Akron, Ohio....
....so ~ you can argue / discuss / recommend anything on social media platforms in good faith and with a reasonable amount of expertise ~ there'll always be a negative response from a good number of the 'I'm right & your wrong' keyboard warriors 🙄
Rant over - normal service now resumes....👍
Slide On!
The Flaschenmeister.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2020 22:32:43 GMT
You could easily upset a beginner by telling them their pride and joy is a piece of s***. Most players of any instrument,unless they're privileged,will start out on an inferior instrument and if they're keen enough will soon graduate to something better and more importantly something that,even with their limited experience,they will know suits them better.What exactly makes you feel qualified to give unsolicited advice on people's choice of instrument TT? In most cases it's probably all they can afford.Just allow people to make mistakes--that's how they learn.
Jeff Beck on his first guitar: 'The guy next door to my parents was older. Much older. He said, “I’ll build you a solid body guitar for five pounds. f**king five pounds, which to me was 500 back then, but anyway, I went ahead and did it. The first one I built was in 1956, because Elvis was out, and everything that you heard about pop music was guitar. Elvis, I mean everybody; Billy Haley. And then I got fascinated. I’m sure the same goes for lots of people'.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2020 0:01:23 GMT
The difference is these people are paying the same for their shiny junk as a decent guitar costs. So it's nothing to do with money, it's to do with being given bad advice by people who are 'unqualified' to give it.
TT
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Post by joephoto on May 26, 2020 1:04:58 GMT
I worked for a guy one time who always said "One man's junk is another man's junk" and I guess that applies to anything. To me, if I can get it in tune and play it it's fine for me. I have an Esteban electric (not sure of the name might be Midnight Legacy) that I got at a close out store for $75.US including a small amp, gig bag, strings, picks and a how to play DVD. I call it a StratPaul because it looks like a mix of both. There's no serial number and it was either made in Korea or China. The little rubber knob fell off the pickup switch so I stuck a die on there. It stays in tune and I like it. Is it still a junk guitar? Probably so but not to me. Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2020 7:19:40 GMT
I'm talking about junk priced in the same ballpark as quality guitars, and the guff used to 'sell' it. Brothers in arms time? The essence of the blues? £600+ bucks?? It's not right! TT   |
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Post by thebluesbear( al) on May 26, 2020 13:44:52 GMT
Hi everyone
Hi TT i saw some of the thread you are talking about , the first thing is this i agree with you in the sense of speaking the truth
perhaps you should consider this when you write , many of those who are on the facebook page in question, are probably much less experienced with lots of things musicially than you and i (and most of this forum are) . what do i mean by this ? well if you listen closely to many folks today there are many opinions, based on what? what i read on the net? what some geezer told me in the pub? this may be true but it doesn't make it fact .
So when you say to someone this is crap . or when you disagree with someones opinion , they wont really understand i do not think. That was clear to me in the exchange i saw ....here is a small example of value
On facebook you will notice i have a picture of a style 0 14 fret instead of a picture of me ?? ok so about 10 years ago i was teaching some guitar to a american student, from a well off family. He bought that style o then put 11 to 52 strings on it played a bit in standard , then a few weeks later said no its not for me ..he was going back to the usa and offered it to me for what ever i could pay. I had little spare cash and i think i paid 450 euros yes its a National NRP .....the strings went, proper strings went on and its been with me ever since ....whats my point ? people will value what they paid and there opinions ,over rational or facts ....
keep on speaking the truth
al
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2020 14:36:01 GMT
Personally I don't hold with this notion that you can say what you like as long as it's the truth. (as you perceive it) If a neighbour bought a new car--his pride and joy--would you tell him it was a piece of junk if you thought so? If you met a girl you know who had put on a bit of weight would you tell her she was fat?
These are classic symtoms of Aspergers and this is why I avoid things like facebook and twitter--too many people firing their little salvos from the shelter of a keyboard. Apart from this and one other forum I occasionally make a comment on YT using my full name--it's a good way of making me consider my comments before posting.I believe the mantra for anyone using social media should be 'don't type what you wouldn't be prepared to say in person'. Rant over--I thank you.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2020 17:08:31 GMT
It's literally the only thing I criticise in that sense, so I don't think implying I have aspergers is a fair comment. As an aside, yesterday, I was called a tool, paedophile, virgin and low life - for saying it's illegal for under 13 year olds to ride in a tractor - am I qualified to say that? Maybe - I've been a safety consultant to agriculture for 17 years. Do I have to blow my trumpet everytime I express an opinion? I don't think so. FB is loaded up with the uninformed, and I personally think it's better to state the truth than allow the lunatics to run the asylum. Ymmv.
Anyway, I really dislike those fake guitars, and if I have any part in their demise, I'll be happy.
As for that guitar group, I like it, except for the junk. I've talked to one of the mods who kind of agrees with me that quality is more important than quantity, but out of respect for him (he's a member here) I'm gonna tone it down.
Cheers
TT
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Post by Michael Messer on May 26, 2020 17:25:41 GMT
One or two of you may have noticed that I pop up on FB forums when someone is showing off their shiny dean thinline or fr50 etc. I may say something like 'it's korean' or 'not a great guitar' - I usually get rounded on big time too. I feel it's important to give an opposing view - maybe not for them, but maybe for 'noobs' perhaps thinking that buying that shiny heap of junk is the thing to do. No-one (exept the manufacturer etc) gains anything from the proliferation of junk guitars, and too many people on FB give out unchallenged bad advice. Does anyone feel that being honest about junk guitars has any importance, or should I / we just let buyers make their own mistakes? TT TT, I think you are in a good position to say those things to people, as long as it doesn't, as Graeme has said, upset a beginner or someone because the guitar means so much to them. Just read my, these days "infamous" review of the Fender FR50 to know how I feel about such things. That, along with a few other rubbish instruments that came my way for review, was the reason I started MM Guitars twelve years ago. As long as you can absolutely back up what you say, you are not offensive or rude about the manufacturer, just factual, and you are knowledgable about the subject, then it is good and right to tell it like it is. That was my rule of thumb when I used to write reviews of instruments for glossy guitar magazines. While it may offend some people, in the long run it is the right way to go and will please more people than it offends. Tell it like it TIS! Shine On Michael |
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2020 17:54:31 GMT
It's literally the only thing I criticise in that sense, so I don't think implying I have aspergers is a fair comment. As an aside, yesterday, I was called a tool, paedophile, virgin and low life - for saying it's illegal for under 13 year olds to ride in a tractor - am I qualified to say that? Maybe - I've been a safety consultant to agriculture for 17 years. Do I have to blow my trumpet everytime I express an opinion? I don't think so. FB is loaded up with the uninformed, and I personally think it's better to state the truth than allow the lunatics to run the asylum. Ymmv. Anyway, I really dislike those fake guitars, and if I have any part in their demise, I'll be happy. As for that guitar group, I like it, except for the junk. I've talked to one of the mods who kind of agrees with me that quality is more important than quantity, but out of respect for him (he's a member here) I'm gonna tone it down. Cheers TT TT-firstly I agree with most of what you're saying even if it doesn't seem like it.The only point I was trying to make,touched on by MM,was that it's important not to kill someone's enthusiasm stone dead by over harsh comments about an instrument they may think (in their naivety) is wonderful. We've all paid over the odds for something at some point (except for my uncle,Tight Wullie,whose even too mean to have a surname) I've managed to do it with a vintage Dobro.Sorry if you took my reference to Aspergers as a suggestion you had it.It was really meant to illustrate my opposition to the 'truth at all costs' notion. Lastly,love the pun in the last sentence of your post baby! |
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2020 17:55:58 GMT
I know that review well (I have copied and pasted the bulk of it without mentioning you several times). In the last 10 years, I've got to know a fair few luthiers and producers of quality guitars. I feel a great deal of affinity with them, not because I'm any good at making guitars, but because I would be one of I could. I think building quality musical instruments is one of greatest things anyone can do. Why fake it?
TT
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Post by alexandre on May 26, 2020 18:28:05 GMT
Sorry, but I can't help to remind this song :  |
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