walter
MM Forum Member
Posts: 9
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Post by walter on May 2, 2020 3:56:24 GMT
I am looking at a Hawaiian Electric, cast aluminum body steel (sometimes called "the horseshoe crab) with a ser# of N174. I'd buy it in a heartbeat for $795 except it's been altered. The original horseshoe pickup has been replaced with a P90 type, and 6 little holes drilled to accommodate the pole pieces sticking up. Two extra holes were drilled for pots, now plugged with steel snap caps, and a volume and tone pot are in the old places where the volume knob and output jack were. I would guess that it's lost a lot of it's charm and value, and an original horseshoe pickup would be hard to find. Any advice? I am thinking of holding out for another one, someday, to show up, all original. Thanks, Walter, a newbie here. BTW I play a '54 National T8 Grand Console and a '55 New Yorker.
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Post by Pickers Ditch on May 2, 2020 8:04:19 GMT
Welcome Walter.
I have probably the latest number known (N721)so far and I paid about the same as your man is asking about 5 years ago.
Mine appears to be all original, maybe the knobs have been replaced and the back felt has definitely been replaced.
My guitar and original case is in superb condition and sings.
Depends really on whether you want the guitar as to what you're willing to pay for it, I suppose.
Keep us informed,
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walter
MM Forum Member
Posts: 9
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Post by walter on May 4, 2020 21:36:59 GMT
Well, I bought it. If it survives shipping, I'll report how it turns out as a looker and a player. Not much interest here, I take it, in electric lap steels by National...
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Post by Michael Messer on May 4, 2020 22:00:34 GMT
Hello Walter
I have only just noticed this thread, so my apologies for that.
I have one of those guitars too and I think there are a few men that have them. They are fantastic instruments and with the original pickup they sound beautiful. I like the long scale, which in lap steel world is not that easy to find. I have recorded with it many times since I got it 30 years ago.
Yours looks like it is in nice condition, apart from the pickup being replaced.
Let us know when you get it.
Oh... welcome to our forum!
Shine On Michael
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walter
MM Forum Member
Posts: 9
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Post by walter on May 4, 2020 22:18:57 GMT
Thanks, MM ! We'll see how it sounds. Maybe Jason Lollar could build me a sweet horseshoe pickup... if necessary.
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Post by mitchfit on May 5, 2020 0:22:17 GMT
walter,
try a PM to forum member "oldnat", another national lap steel fan. he can be hit and miss here, so don't expect a quick answer. may even have PUP pics, dunno.
FWIW--- try it and decide if it sounds good 'nuff as is. a top quality repro [that even looks very close to OEM] will be a deal killer for a collector regardless, and could run into some big coinage to boot.
and your chances of finding an original for sale are...HEY, WELCOME ABOARD WALTER.
mitchfit
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walter
MM Forum Member
Posts: 9
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Post by walter on May 5, 2020 3:44:25 GMT
Thanks, mitchfit. I'm really just a player, and not in it for the investment, really, so I'm not too worried about it's collector value in the long run, and I'm guessing it will sound great as is. We shall see...
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Post by Michael Messer on May 5, 2020 7:53:54 GMT
Thanks, MM ! We'll see how it sounds. Maybe Jason Lollar could build me a sweet horseshoe pickup... if necessary. Walter, The horseshoe pickups that Jason makes are a completely different thing. The pickup in your guitar is a straight blade attached to a type of horseshoe magnet. It is very crude. If you would like a photo I can open my guitar up and take one for you. An expert welder that understands working with aluminium could fill those holes perfectly. A friend of mine recently had one of these guitars repaired by a welder and it is perfect. Shine On Michael
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Post by mendax on May 5, 2020 13:48:38 GMT
I have 3 Dobro aluminum lap steels--an early 6 string I bought from Dave Flood back in 1973, and 2 later 7 strings. One had a replaced pickup which I couldn't tell from the tiny photo on eBay--Pete Biltoff made me a blade pickup that worked out fine. I even have the option of switching from the alnico magnet to a ceramic to change the sound. It's not a duplicate of the original Stimson style horseshoe by any means, but it looks right from outside and with the alnico it sounds like the original guitars. As to cost--it was done 15 years ago and even if I could remember his price I'm sure would be different now--but at least at the time it seemed reasonable as he had to custom design it. I sent him the carcass so he could install it.
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walter
MM Forum Member
Posts: 9
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Post by walter on May 6, 2020 19:26:29 GMT
You know how it is, when you buy something off that auction site, and yer waiting for it to arrive, just to see what the heck you got...
I know about aluminum welding, and various aluminum-like fillers, including solders that could be used to fill the two pot holes they drilled, and some gold touchup paint to make it look original again. How much will I care about that when the time comes? Maybe a lot. Maybe not much.
Hey, MM, I would love to see some pics of the ancient horseshoe magnet pickup! Could you lay a ruler down next to it, too? It would be a custom job to make one of them. I bet Rick Aiello could do it.
WW
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Post by oldnat on May 7, 2020 2:47:59 GMT
Hi Walter, Hit and Miss Old Nat here. I hope these pics help. Save Michael M unscrewing his . Cheers
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walter
MM Forum Member
Posts: 9
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Post by walter on May 21, 2020 18:22:53 GMT
I've been playing it, as strung up in open E. It's a very high quality instrument. Has a bound wooden fretboard, with metal frets. 25" scale. The replacement pickup works well. Kinda dark sounding, with no tone control action. Something is wrong with the pots. They both act like volume controls, and both have to be turned up to max, together. It's got a .001mfd capacitor (Oldnat's photo shows a .05mfd cap). Could be wrong parts, and/or miswiring.
Does anyone have a wiring diagram for one of these guys with vol and tone control?
Could anyone recommend a reputable pickup winder who could make one to fit?
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Post by mitchfit on May 22, 2020 0:06:51 GMT
"dark sounding" = bass heavy?
if so, put a 7 band EQ pedal before amp.
the OEM schematic was designed to work with OEM PUP. the same circuit will produce "other-than" sonic traits with current PUP.
pick a guit you do like the signal from and replace pots, PUP and circuit components with same. not like it'll change the resale value much.
personally, i'd try a hot wound P-90, YMMV.
enjoy, mitchfit
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Post by pete1951 on May 22, 2020 7:13:32 GMT
Usually an 0.001 cap is used the remove high treble (or let high treble ‘jump’ round a resistance of some sort.) It could be wired to give a ‘dark’ tone? Pete
A pic or drawing would show what’s going on The photo is a little dark to see, though the cap looks very large for a 0.001
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walter
MM Forum Member
Posts: 9
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Post by walter on Jun 1, 2020 19:30:45 GMT
Usually an 0.001 cap is used the remove high treble (or let high treble ‘jump’ round a resistance of some sort.) It could be wired to give a ‘dark’ tone? Pete A pic or drawing would show what’s going on The photo is a little dark to see, though the cap looks very large for a 0.001 It's definitely a .001mfd cap. Here's what the wiring looks like. I snipped one leg of the cap, but that made no difference. Is this wiring setup incorrect?
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