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Post by Kris on Apr 19, 2020 8:46:22 GMT
I hope everyone is keeping well. With nothing but time to play with these days I tuned my Gretsch resonator (which I reserve for silly experiments, poor thing) to Bb. While this experiment certainly does its tone no favours, I really love the tuning. It sounds so dark and, very surprisingly, is the tuning my vocal range has always needed. It’s peaked my interested. I’m now looking at my precious steel NRP, which I treat with upmost respect, and am thinking about tuning it down from open D to Bb. I had a word with Catfish Keith who thinks I should go for it as It’s got pretty hefty 16/59s on it and should work quite nicely. I’m precious about this guitar so didn’t want to knock it’s set up out of whack. Just wondering if anyone else does this with their non baritone resonator? Any tips and findings appreciated. My other concern is plugging in guitars in this tuning, if I start moving in this direction. I don’t want to start blowing amps! I’d be interested in knowing what baritone players do in this instance. Cheers  |
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Post by jono1uk on Apr 19, 2020 8:54:56 GMT
Hi Kris
i have one of my Les Paul copies in "B standard ( like Ariel Posen) ..sounds great with slide and hasn't blown my vintage Super Reverb yet so i reckon you will be ok.
Ariel uses this tuning as his "standard" tuning on his Mulecaster and not heard he has had issues.
Hope it helps
Jon
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Post by Kris on Apr 19, 2020 9:16:14 GMT
Thank you Jon, I appreciate your reassurance.
Ariel is great isn’t he. I’ve put my name down for a Mulecaster myself, so impressed am I by my Mule tricone, and am going to go for the Baritone. It will be a bit of a wait but worth it!
I’m excited to see where this tuning takes me. I went through all my own songs and found they all sounded better, swampier and darker in Bb and the vocals fell into place. It highlights the importance of experimentation, I can get very stuck in my ways!
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Post by coach on Apr 19, 2020 9:27:08 GMT
I played a Danelectro baritone years ago in a duo. (it's how I transferred from bass over to guitar). I don't remember blowing up any guitar amps with it. Must have been late 90s/early 2000s, people used to come up to me after gigs and ask "what's that 'thing'? one minute it sounds like a bass, the next like a guitar", there weren't many baritones around.
A bari resonator sounds like a wonderful idea, if Mr Catfish says try it on the NRP then I would do it, however it's going to be better on a dedicated one because of the scale length and string size.
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Post by Kris on Apr 19, 2020 9:39:22 GMT
Thank you! They are very cool, certainly a head turning sound.
Matt from Mule recently went live on Instagram with a tricone he’d strung up with the big boy Baritone strings and it really peaked my interest, sounded fantastic. I never really thought all too much about Baritone strings on a 25” scale guitar.
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Post by coach on Apr 19, 2020 12:41:51 GMT
When you think, loads of metal band guitarists have placed very heavy gauge strings on standard scale guitars and tuned right down so there's every reason to try as long as your tension and set-up accommodates it.
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Post by richclough on Apr 20, 2020 12:39:30 GMT
Hi Kris, One of the joys for me of moving to open tunings and slide playing is realising that the deeper tunings work so much better with a bass baritone vocal and I don't have to sing at the top of my range all the time. I flip my National Resophonic Style 1 tricone fairly regularly between open D, open G, open C and open C minor. I use 15-56 Elixirs. Nothing moves, but then at its last set-up Steve from Beltona put a little bit of Pritt stick on the cone edges - which I know Michael disapproves of, but hasn't caused any problems yet. The thing sounds great - to my relatively uneducated ears.  The open C I use is CGCGCE - which is useful because of the higher tension on the treble strings keeping the slide off the board. I'm not sure that open D (DADF#AD) would drop down to open CGCEGC, still less to Bb. Not for slide at least, way too much rattle. But, then I use a heavy tungsten carbide slide...and I'm not using 16-59. Yet. Okay, so........hmmm. Keep us informed!  Cheers, Rich. |
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Post by Kris on Apr 20, 2020 13:01:36 GMT
I have a pretty variable vocal range and went from roaring in a tear-off-your-ears hardcore metal band, to adopting a sweet sounding, clean, angelic voice in a subsequent project! Progressing on from that I used to twaddle about in open E and A thinking that was where I needed to be (I think I barely escaped serious vocal chord damage ducking out of metal when I did!)
However, as so far as the guitars themselves go, the deeper, thumpier and more bassy the better to my ear! I love dirty, swampy tones. I decided open D was a happy medium (and involved less snapped strings) so floated around there for a while.
However, having gone for the open Bb experiment I was surprised, actually a far more comfortable place for my voice and it works very much better for all my songs. I’m hanging out here for a while, likely permanently as it just feels like it clicked and I found my sound.
The tuning I’m using is B F# B D# F# B, so vestapol tuning transposed to low B, I think! My steel NRP seems happy enough and it hasn’t thrown anything out of whack. The bottom strings are a tad squidgier but I think it’s a case of getting used to a different feel.
Putting even fatter string on has crossed my mind! Obviously I released a fair bit of tension on my 16/59s going down a few steps so I wonder if it could work out! Finding fatter strings will be interesting though! I wonder if the guys at Newtone could do me some customs. Hmmm...
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Post by calvoi on Apr 20, 2020 16:34:23 GMT
Putting even fatter string on has crossed my mind! Obviously I released a fair bit of tension on my 16/59s going down a few steps so I wonder if it could work out! Finding fatter strings will be interesting though! I wonder if the guys at Newtone could do me some customs. Hmmm... Newtone do a custom order for a set of strings however you want them: newtonestrings.com/shop/custom-string-configurator/Considering they are made to order they are not too much more than their standard sets. Would be worth doing some math about roughly what tension you would be expecting though. |
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Post by Kris on Apr 20, 2020 16:38:31 GMT
Putting even fatter string on has crossed my mind! Obviously I released a fair bit of tension on my 16/59s going down a few steps so I wonder if it could work out! Finding fatter strings will be interesting though! I wonder if the guys at Newtone could do me some customs. Hmmm... Newtone do a custom order for a set of strings however you want them: newtonestrings.com/shop/custom-string-configurator/Considering they are made to order they are not too much more than their standard sets. Would be worth doing some math about roughly what tension you would be expecting though. Maths is not my forte! I’m sure I saw a chart somewhere, or calculation to that effect. |
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Post by calvoi on Apr 20, 2020 16:53:01 GMT
tension.stringjoy.com/I just googled string tension calculator and this neat little tool came up. Now bear in mind these are based on stringjoys strings not newtone strings which are somewhat known for lower tensions. But if you put in your current gauges and tune to let's say open D and note the total tension on the calculator. Then you could change the tuning to b flat and check which gauges give a similar total tension. Also might be worth making sure the individual tensions are roughly all in the same ballpark.
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Post by Kris on Apr 20, 2020 16:55:07 GMT
Amazing, thank you! I’ve got some livestock to feed up on the farm and then will crunch some numbers!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2020 12:18:57 GMT
Just a footnote to this thread...its probably a studio thing that perhaps was learned from their early meeting with Phil Spector...a low tuned standard guitar ( tuned to C?) was used by the Stones, most likely Brian Jones, in Heart of Stone, Its All over Now, Down Home Girl, and possibly other recordings...to interesting results.
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Post by gaucho on Apr 23, 2020 15:28:34 GMT
I used to tune all my resos down that low (even vintage Nats) with no problem. I really liked the dark, swampy tones. But then I started experimenting with lighter strings (I love the purple pack Power Slinkys, 11-48 with it's unwound 3rd) and I started tuning up to key of G (in Spanish). I found that my guitars really ring out now with those strings!
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Post by tokyo on Apr 23, 2020 18:28:30 GMT
Just a few lines about the key of Bb on of my fave songs " Little Sister " first done by Elvis then taken as the opening track on " Bop Till you Drop "was done in Bb, as well as material across the whole spectrum on that album anyway chords are Bb Eb Gm F C9 Gm7,I have a small all mahogony travel guitar...the late night couch guitar[ I live in a flat] tuned to open C with 16/56s on it and its a tuning i have come to love,Regards to all ,t.
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