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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 22, 2019 10:22:40 GMT
Question! -- Does anybody know what the story is behind this amplifier? As far as I was aware, Selmer/Truvoice amps were made in Britain by Selmer/RSA at Theobalds House, Holborn, London during the 50s and 60s. This particular amp is definitely Valco made in Chicago during 1954. It has an "X" plate serial number for that date. and has "Selmer, Elkhart, Indiana" printed on the back plate. Would love to know why??  Shine On Michael |
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 22, 2019 10:23:24 GMT
Quite a lot of early Nationals feature 'one-off' engraving patterns that we know nothing about. These may be factory produced or amateur-done after purchase. It is difficult to ascribe these patterns to the factory when only one is known. However, when two or more appear, it becomes more likely that there was a longer standing arrangement with the company and the engraver. Number 3479 has been known for some years. It is a very late triplate with "wiggle" pattern. Serial number on the headstock, this dates to around 1934/35. Recently, Fred Le Saint in France drew my attention to this new one - 2074 that has appeared. It seems to have been owned by Fred Lunt, a steel guitarist with Taj Mahal. Obviously the same engraver, but dating to late 1930. So now we have the possibility that this engraver was around the National factory for some 3 or 4 years.  Shine On Michael |
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Post by jono1uk on Mar 22, 2019 10:23:46 GMT
Hi Michael
.would it be worth having a separate forum section for the book alone ..so we can get to the updates easily .similar to grabbing the hard book when we want to research something?
Just an idea..
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 22, 2019 10:24:10 GMT
As an addition to the last post, this is what was happening when the Style 4 was being developed. The image on the left is the back of 0157 (the first Style 4 we know of) with the banner headstock. It was a thinly engraved, more naturalistic, leafy sort of pattern. The second picture (0189) is a much more assured and stylistic version of the same thing. Within two years, the final version with a much fuller, lush type of foliage. NB. The first two are flatbacks, the final one of course, has a dished back. Also 0157 does not have the edge trackline  Shine On Michael |
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 22, 2019 10:25:03 GMT
I've been looking at the subtle changes in pearl logos used on high end Nationals (roundneck triplates) in the 20s and 30s. This is what I've built up. All of the basic National guitars, of course, used decals, from the early 'blue' logo, through the 3 colour black,red and gold version and brand-specific logos - Duolians, Triolians, Trojans etc. The very first National banjos, and the earliest guitars like 101 Triplate used a banner logo made of black lettering inlaid into pearl. This is shown in Pic 1. Around #0157 Triplate Style4, the second banner (pic2) with script lettering appears. By #0189, the first pearl shield appears (pic 3). This is quite unusual with lines of dots above and below the name. The second version of the shield (pic4) has a trackline around the edge for the first time and also block sans serif lettering. The more usual pearl shield (Pic 5) was used on the largest number of roundneck Tricones before #0900. After this number, the headstocks are mostly pearloid covered. The only real, high end exception that we have in later years occurs on #0989 (The "Harry Watson" triplate). This reverts back to an earlier type of banner headstock (Pic7).  Shine On Michael |
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 22, 2019 10:25:58 GMT
I have noticed recently that a few people are not fully acquainted with the facts about the El Trovador production so I thought I'd put the various images together. Production was discussed between Kay and National and started between Feb and April 1932. For almost 2 years they manufactured close to 600 instruments before a company disagreement caused Kay to cease body production in December 1933. National started meetings with the Harmony company and they re-introduced the El Trovador with slight differences. The f holes were slightly shorter and in a different position. There was a larger gap through the middle of the f holes, the fingerboard had more complicated fret markers (later to be used on the Estralita which would be the 14 fret successor to the ElTrovador). The headstock was also different. Harmony's was actually the same as used on the Trojans. The colour was a typical sunburst finish and not the red rubbed mahogany finish of the earlier Kays. Kay El Trovadors have "K" serial numbers and Harmony (logically) have "H" numbers. Harmony produced up to another 200 instruments into the middle of 1934. Also issued by Kay was the (extremely rare) Tenor guitar version. It has an El Trovador logo on a headstock similar to the KayKraft venetian cutaway guitars (same company). The body is actually a Trojan/Rosita shape with a 4 string neck. They couldn't use the deep waisted El Trovador body because it would have been too narrow at the waist for the much higher coverplate required by the short scale tenor. It also has an amazingly long trapeze tailpiece. This example (far right) is the only one so far discovered.  Shine On Michael |
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 22, 2019 10:26:41 GMT
Here we go again! This one was turned up this week by Rik Besser. At first sight it looks like a 12 fret wood bodied Triolian except that the top bouts are much wider, it has a mid 30s scratchplate and coverplate and has a TROJAN decal logo on the headstock. Inside is inscribed "...'29 and J.D. " This may be a prototype shape for the Triolian made in 1929 which was held until the early 30s and issued as a Trojan. It may have something to do with the birth of the Trojan in 1933 or the ill fated forerunner called the Violian. Who knows? Any guesses?  Shine On Michael |
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 22, 2019 10:27:22 GMT
Here is a comparison picture. On the left is the 'Tampa Red' guitar as it was found with holes in some of the mesh grilles, no tailpiece and, what looks like, a 14 fret Duolian neck!. On the right is the "restored" version with a neck plundered from another Triplate and repairs and additions. Interesting eh?  Shine On Michael |
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 22, 2019 10:28:01 GMT
I know most people have seen this as it has been discussed across the media for the last couple of days. I have discussed this with Marc Schoenberger and here is our take on it. It is obviously a Guitar shaped National Tenor BUT with a Tricone system fitted. There are a few details such as the ribbed cones and the 'production' type National decal that show it is not a very early instrument despite the 90 degree turn of the cone well. This is certainly a prototype (the number is 01 of course) but is likely to be the test for the changeover from pear shaped tenors to small guitar bodies. We think it marks the end of the tricone system in other instruments than guitars - probably because of cost at this time (around 1930/31). As people know, subsequently, the small guitar bodies were fitted with single cones.  Shine On Michael |
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 22, 2019 10:29:18 GMT
Another new discovery this week. Single cone, pear shaped tenors are rare instruments in any form - particularly so in german silver. They were made for a very short time between the pear shaped Triplates and the single cone, small guitar bodies. From the serial numbers, there can not have been many more than 200 made, mostly plain bodies. Engraved instruments are next to impossible. Previously we only knew of one Style 3 single cone tenor - until now. This is the first example found of a Wild Rose Style 2, single cone German Silver Tenor - number 702. The pattern is done by a different "hand" to the usual Wild roses found at this time.  Shine On Michael |
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 22, 2019 10:30:04 GMT
This one seems to be quite important. It comes from an article in Vintage guitar last month. It used to belong to Little Jimmy Dickens. It is Number 390 and is the earliest known Style 3 (the next being 575). On closer inspection, this may well be the prototype for the style. Firstly, it is the early variation 1 pattern but with many more "flowers" than others of the type. Secondly, it has a simple, dark stained headstock with early blue logo - not the pearl head that the style should have. Thirdly, it has only a simple dot fretboard, not the diamond markers on later versions. As you can see, the way the Style 3 is drawn is not the same as subsequent examples but the basic layout is the same. This one has the addition of butterflies and dragonflies and also a pair of lovebirds under the strings. On the side is an engraved letter "E". Although it is only conjecture this may be representative of "E" for Elizabeth Dopyera, John's wife, who designed the Style 3. In discussions with Marc Schoenberger and Anne Dopyera West, we feel it could easily be the first example of this model which was taken home for approval!! (Obviously no proof, but nice idea!) Whether the butterflies were meant for this item alone or intended for the 'released' version we can't say - I think they did the right thing not using them, a bit twee really!,  Shine On Michael |
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 22, 2019 10:30:59 GMT
This early cast National Lap Steel has just come to light and is probably one of very few prototypes of this model. It has a different body shape to the final production model (see right) Obviously based on the 'shield' shape of the National Company logo, it was probably changed because it looked ungainly and needed 'streamlining' a bit. The volume knob is in an interesting position high up on the body. It also features a raised "PAT.PEND" under the bridge. It also has the centre of the headstock filled in with aluminium. The colour at the moment is conjectural because, at present, the instrument is painted red! However it seems likely that it might be more or less the same as the final instrument that was made a few weeks later.  Shine On Michael |
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 22, 2019 10:31:38 GMT
I wonder how many people know that the Mosrite company also made a bass version of the D100 Californian  Shine On Michael |
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 22, 2019 10:32:19 GMT
The cheap, Regal produced 'f' hole Dobros of the late 1930s were sometimes called the Model 5s and 6s in quite a lot of trade catalogues. Most of them had undersized 8" cones with a variety of coverplate patterns - poinsettia, moon and stars, violin mute etc.. This variant from probably around 1939/40 has a larger cone and the rarely-seen but well known wooden coverplate and handstrap. It is branded with the green oval Regal logo. It also has a cheap Lyon & Healey pressed tailpiece fitted.  Shine On Michael |
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Post by pete1951 on Mar 22, 2019 10:33:03 GMT
Question! -- Does anybody know what the story is behind this amplifier? As far as I was aware, Selmer/Truvoice amps were made in Britain by Selmer/RSA at Theobalds House, Holborn, London during the 50s and 60s. This particular amp is definitely Valco made in Chicago during 1954. It has an "X" plate serial number for that date. and has "Selmer, Elkhart, Indiana" printed on the back plate. Would love to know why?? Shine On Michael I had a bakalite Rickenbacker with amp once, the logo was a Truvoice, on it. I guess Selmer imported stuff they didn’t make and re-branded. Plenty of that still goes on! Pete I sold it to John Crab, who wanted it for his ‘collection’, a year or so later it was in the London Resonator Center |
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