|
Post by snakehips on May 18, 2024 14:40:48 GMT
Hi again !
I forgot to say, although it's maybe obvious, that once I switched to that metal barrel type socket, all the hum went away, without the need to pay a wire from the tailpiece to the ground of the jack socket. The ONLY problem with the barrel-type jack socket I used is that it tightens with a nut, from the inside - so, being able to disconnect the cable leads from the junction box allowed me to attached the barrel socket without getting caught up in a connected, short cable. Once I was sure I had the socket on tight, I connected the two wires back in.
I don't have a stick-on-guitar-body type magnetic pickup to compare with but this MM/Sixtus tricone pickup sounds good - especially on the trable strings. It's a bit more electric guitar on the wound strings - the 6th string the most, less resonator sounding.
The pickup output signal is quite strong though, considering there is no preamp - I'm very impressed with that.
Overall the pickup is good though. Need to test it more. My eldest boy still has school exams for another 12 days so I'm not allowed to make much noise in the meantime, so testing is a bit limited, when my son has 15min breaks from studying !
|
|
|
Post by snakehips on May 17, 2024 21:37:24 GMT
Hi again ! Well, I changed out the plastic jack socket I used first, for one of these nickel-plated barrel jacks - quite a nice design. As it's all metal, sitting on a metal guitar, it cut all the hum I had, using the plastic jack socket. Put the whole guitar together and it needs time to settle but so far, so good. Treble strings with a slide sound great - & great sustain, I think. Still hearing too much of the guitar acoustically. Plugged into a wee fender valve amp - (Vibrochamp) and it sounded fine. For those who do not want to drill a hole into their beloved Tricone, the for the size of soundhole grills, I think this barrel-type jack socket looks good and works well :
|
|
|
Post by snakehips on May 17, 2024 10:09:08 GMT
Hi Bonzo !
If you do any shaping of the cones, be careful not to put the rest of the cone out of shape in the process.
Sit at your kitchen table or something, for doing this as you need a flat surface to then place the cone onto - to check periodically, if it sits/contacts the flat surface all the way round. Actually check before you start - sometimes cones are not as flat as they should be (around the rim).
However, sometimes resonator wells are not as flat as they should be (I think the soldering process can warp the flat sheet of metal a little, if not careful enough during manufacture of the metal bodies. I always wondered if National (and National Resophonic) settled on steel for the reso well/pan, no matter what material they were using for the rest of the body - maybe steel doesn't warp as easy (when soldering). Or maybe they found a steel well simply gave the best tone, or both ??? !!!
|
|
|
Post by snakehips on May 16, 2024 23:25:16 GMT
Hi again ! Well, I got my pickup installed and working. Mine has hum that disappears when I touch the metal part of my jack plug - but I expect that is because I changed the jack socket to a plastic one which doesn't touch the earthed/ground parts of the socket to the guitar body. Grrr - I'll have to change the jack socket back. What does it sound like ? Pretty good so far, actually. I have only plugged it into a Bose S1 Pro small speaker. It's not perhaps the best tester amp. However, I did compare it to the Highlander Magnaphonic pickup in my NRP tricone. The Magnaphonic is a bit more nasal sounding, and a good bit treble-sounding. The new MM/Sixtus pickup has a strong signal. . I'm not really sure how much of the acoustic sound of my guitar I was hearing verses the amp'd sound/tone - so I really need to record sound coming from a decent PA speaker (and compare it to the Magnaphonic pickup. The pickup did seem to have excellent sustain, with a slide up the neck. I'm filled with positive thoughts about this pickup so far. OK, my guitar had a centre pan screw with quite a tall screw head. As MM doesn't think this looks like an original screw, I filed down about half the height of the head - and then this allowed me to use a thinner washer around it, held on with a little glue. I set the pickup on top of the washer, holding on just with the magnetic pull (at least while I assess the pickup). Drilled a 3mm diameter drill bit through the pan on the bass side of the pickup, fed the cable through the hole. The jack socket (my replacement plastic one) was fixed to the grill, and the little junction box thing screwed into the side of the neck stick. Forgot to say, I pre tinned the pickup cable wire ends so the wires would have something better to grip to. I glued the metal "detector" plate to the underside of my T-bar, then once the glue was set, I peeled off the adhesive strip - as I wouldn't be using it ! Put everything together, with the coverplate off for now.
|
|
|
Post by snakehips on May 16, 2024 16:32:10 GMT
Ah ha ! If it would affect the magnetic field - and thus possible tone, then fair enough. I was try to see if I could submerge the plate inside the underside of the T-bar, so that it was flush with the T-bar, rather than an additional layer (for occasions when keeping the gap open enough is difficult).
To create enough space, for mounting my Magnaphonic pickup to my NRP Tricone, I had to file off some of the underside of my NRP T-bar. I'm not doing that to my vintage Tricone !!!
|
|
|
Post by snakehips on May 16, 2024 15:06:40 GMT
Hi again,
In my experience, I found the Magnaphonic pickup's "clip-on" metal detector plate to be very frustrating to stay on - so I'd resort to using Super-Glue. I didn't feel the side bits had enough to grip onto the T-bar sides. So, I think I'll try hot glue. Plus, there's less chance of me sticking my fingers together !!
|
|
|
Post by snakehips on May 16, 2024 13:33:03 GMT
Hi Hilmar,
How large does the metal "detector" plate need to be ? Same size as the pickup polepiece ? Slightly bigger than the pickup polepiece As wide as the pickup body ?
I'd think a dab of hot glue from a hot-glue gun would be enough to reversibly attach the detector to the underside of the T-bar. Now that I know the wee round magnet is not absolutely necessary (especially if there is not too much of a gap), then I think I may have enough of a gap for my guitar. Will hopefully manage to try it tonight. It's my youngest son's birthday today though - so he needs time with his Dad !!
Hi Michael,
Marc Schoenberger worked on the guitar before I hade it, then Steve Evans after I got it - BUT Steve didn't need to do a neck reset. I do like the Highlander Magnaphonic method of attaching the pickup though. I'll have a look for another screw with a smaller head as that will help reduce the height of the washer I need - and give more of a gap above the pickup polepiece.
|
|
|
Post by snakehips on May 16, 2024 9:33:04 GMT
Hi again, Well, quoting from the Simon Pegg / Nick Frost 2007 comedy film, "Hot Fuzz", it's all for "the greater good". I did find a large, fat steel washer that has raised the pickup high enough to clear the screw head. I had to remove the adhesive foam strip from the underside of the pickup - but as it's strongly magnetic, it grips the washer quite well. I might go down the route of using a hot-glue gun, to stick the washer to the pan, and might rely on the sheer magnetic pull of the pickup to hold the pickup onto the washer/pan (at least while testing). There is still some clearance between that and the underside of the T-bar, without the full string pressure pushing the T-bar down a bit. So, I've yet to see how much that space closes down, with the strings on & up to pitch. I can tell already, there will not be room for the metal plate AND it's adhesive foam strip AND the wee round magnet, all to be attached to the underside of the T-bar. IF the metal plate is just to hold the wee round magnet, but the plate does nothing else (ie. not needed for the sound ?) then I could jig something to mount the wee round magnet flush with the underside of the T-bar (instead of hanging down a bit lower). I'm thinking of a wee bit of wood (same width as the wee round magnet itself), triangular in shape, to be glued inside/into the underside of the T-bar (shaping the triangle so it fits perfectly) - glue that in, then glue the wee magnet onto that. I suppose we also need to know what is the ideal gap above the pickup ?? Perhaps that is what you need us 6 pickup testers to determine ?? I think we can get there, with a bit of experimentation. Here is where I have got to so far - the pickup, sitting on a thick steel washer - and you can see the gap between the top of the pickup AND the underside of the T-bar. There is a half-decent gap BUT this is without the strings on so far. I expect that gap will be halved. Thus, I think I'll need to place the wee round magnet flush with the underside of the T-bar, glueing a wee wooden triangular wedge into the underside of the T-bar, circa 1mm shot of being flush, then by sticking the magnet onto the wooden wedge, the magnet should be about flush. The upside is that there shouldn't be any thing visibly attached to the T-bar, as it will all be hidden underneath the bar. Also : 1. I still need to drill a small hole through the steel tricone resonator well/pan, between the pickup and the two bass-side cones (perhaps 5-8mm north of the pickup itself, but still within that raised section of pan), to feed the pickup cable inside the main body of the guitar. The hole only needs to be big enough to pass the cable through. 2. I have changed the jack socket. The "standard" metal jack sockets are a little too small for fitting into a grill port hole. I have changed it to one of those bulkier black plastic things. The socket barrel is wide enough, inside the guitar, but I needed to use another steel washer on the outside, under the plastic nut. Pictures to follow, when I get home tonight. It's not the most beautiful arrangement BUT I refuse to drill a larger hole externally into my 1931 Tricone, for a jack socket on the side of the guitar (anyway, I've always found it difficult to plug in a right-angled jack into a side jack socket WHEN wearing thumb & finger picks - so I prefer to fit the jack socket in/on the front grill. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by snakehips on May 15, 2024 22:14:22 GMT
Hi again ! I opened up my Tricone. The pictures show an old slot-head screw in the centre of the pan, with quite a tall dome head..... where the pickup is supposed to go ! I placed the pickup beside the screw, so that you can see, in relative terms, how tall the screw head is. I suppose I could look for a screw with the same screw-thread, that has a lower profile head - and swap over. The pan is screwed down to the neck stick, at the tailpiece end, AND there is a hole in the pan, for a screw, towards the fretboard end BUT no screw ! There is an off-centre screw-hole in the wood though. Marc Schoenberger did a neck reset on this guitar, for the previous owner (from Texas), JUST before I bought it, around 10yrs ago - so I am surprised there is one screw out of three missing. (In a piece of pure coincidence, the previous owner of my Tricone, is spending a lot of his retirement, travelling the world - and reaches Edinburgh this weekend, so I'm gonna meet up with him, and show him the guitar he once owned !).
|
|
|
Post by snakehips on May 15, 2024 21:55:10 GMT
Hi Michael !
I'm sure we would all like to see it ??? !!!
|
|
|
Post by snakehips on May 15, 2024 16:45:16 GMT
Hi there !
Is/was there a screw in the middle of the pan, with it’s head getting in the way of the pickups sitting flat & secure ? I expect not.
My 1931 roundneck Tricone has a screw and the screw head has quite a tall dome to it. I could remove the screw, then countersink a (slightly) wider hole a mm or two (same depth as the height of the screw head), then put the screw back in- so the head of the screw is flush. Then the pickup should sit flat & stay stuck down.
Question is, do I want to do this ?? Unless anyone has any better ideas ??
|
|
|
Post by snakehips on May 15, 2024 12:45:48 GMT
Hi Ken,
I think the Cobalt Blue bottlenecks is leaded glass.
Lewis Ford (Lonelyjelly) is my go-to expert on all aspects of (and secret supplier of) Diamond Bottlenecks. He could possibly help explain.
(DOH !!!! I see Ian McWee has already commented !)
|
|
|
Post by snakehips on May 13, 2024 20:53:14 GMT
Hi Michael,
The Highlander Magnaphonic pickup itself attached (on NRP Tricones) to the pan by removing the middle screw that secures the centre of the pan to the neck stick. The screw is replaced with a longer screw that sticks up a bit. The Magnaphonic pickup is hollow in the centre of the underside - and it fits over this protruding screw. A grubscrew, at 90 degrees to the main screw is screwed inwards, to grip & hold the pickup onto the main screw (the one imbedded into the neck stick).
No adhesive strip or glue is needed. It’s easy to remove & replace the pickup from the mount (had you not fed the cable through a small drilled hole and soldered the Magnaphonic’s terrible-to-solder RCA phone plug on (I’m v happy with the mini connector junction thing instead, for the Sixtus/MM pickup - that's a good move !!).
NB. My NRP Tricone already has a Magnaphonic pickup installed in it. I am loath to de-solder the dreaded RCA Phono plug from the pickup cable, to remove the pickup from my guitar, to try this new Sixtus/MM pickup.
Thus, I am looking at installing it into my 1931 roundneck Style 1 Tricone - but have a few issues with doing that :
1. I shall have to pluck up the courage to drill a tiny hole in the 93yr old pan to feed the pickup cable through. This is the only National I’ve so far, never drilled a hole into the neck heel, for a strap button ! The hole in the pan will be small though and shouldn’t be visible.
2. The original National pan screw head, in the centre of the pan, is quite tall - and so I can’t see the Sixtus/MM pickup sitting flat over this screw head. Is the pickup flat & solid, under the wee square of adhesive tape, or is there any hole/hollow in the centre/underside of this pickup, like the Magnaphonic pickup ?? If not, I can’t see how the pickup will fit onto my vintage National Tricone. I don’t want to remove & leave out the centre pan screw, in case I get vibration issues, or worse. What can we do ??
PS. I'd be VERY interested to try a single-cone pickup, if a similar concept (mounted inside the guitar). Happy to pay for it though, just like the Tricone pickup.
|
|
|
Post by snakehips on May 13, 2024 13:09:31 GMT
......... BUT I'll add real-life factor to this - the glass material is that hard that they don't break as easily, even when dropping onto hard surfaces. I haven't broken any of mine, on the numerous times I have dropped them onto a concrete OR tiled floor. If anything, the floor came off worse. So, avoiding glass slides because you think they will smash if dropped - that's in the past with they slides !!!
Also, they look cool. Also, they feel fab in your hand. Also ...... they sound great and thus are a joy to use.
The more, the merrier, Ian !!!!!
|
|
|
Post by snakehips on May 13, 2024 13:05:01 GMT
Hi there !
Got my pickup delivered.
Looks similar in design, installation-wise at least, as the Highlander Magnaphonic pickup.
Looks like we need to drill a small hole in the resonator well/pan, close to the pickup, to feed the pickup cable underneath, then screw the free wires to the junction box. Think I'll tin the copper wire ends with a bit of solder, before screwing the wires in - which might help the screw grip to the thin/delicate wire a bit more.
Stick the little metal tab onto the underside of the T-Bar - perhaps using a graphite pencil to make a wee mark where the tab should go (directly under where the pickup will be !!!) - and stick the pickup down onto the pan, making sure it's directly under the metal tag stuck under the T-bar ! Attach the little junction box to the neck stick, with the tiny screw (drilling a small pilot hole first, would be a good idea), then fix the jack socket somewhere.
Does that sound about right ??
|
|