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Post by rpsayles on Nov 15, 2017 14:00:14 GMT
Hi
I've just become the proud owner of an MM Lightning , buying second hand of a fellow forum member. The guitar is as expected great with superb clarity and projection.
However there's a niggle. When either the 2nd, 3rd or 4th string are plucked as open strings there is a rattle that seems to come from the headstock end. This is not string buzz. The harder the pluck the more severe the noise becoming almost a clanking noise. There is no noise from fretted notes just open strings
Ive checked all the screws at the headstock end and noted that non of the tuners are loose nor are there any string ends catching.
The mystery is when the guitar is laid flat on the floor there is no rattle/ noise!
I'm worried that the neck rod is loose. Would this be possible?
Just to clarify further the noise is akin to that of a loose tuner but they are all solid to the touch.
Any thoughts? Also what can I expect to see if I remove the neck rod cover which sits next to the nut?
Much obliged RP
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Post by ricks on Nov 15, 2017 14:06:01 GMT
If it's definitely headstock end, I'd think it must be tuners ( unlikely ) or trussrod-nut, there should be at least some tension on the rod to prevent rattle.
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Post by Michael Messer on Nov 15, 2017 15:15:26 GMT
Hi Rob
Rick is right that it is most likely the tuners. Have you checked the tension screws in the cogs?
I agree with Rick, but I guess it could be the truss rod, you could try tightening it a quarter turn with a 4mm Allen key.
What you say about it not being a problem when you lie it on its back, makes me think you have a loose mushroom (pit-prop) inside the body. Vibrations in musical instruments can be weird to track down.
If you are unsure about what to do, or how to track this problem down, you should take it to an experienced resonator luthier. Are you in reach of Dave King near Newbury?
Shine On Michael
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Post by rpsayles on Nov 15, 2017 15:36:51 GMT
Hi Michael Thanks for your input. No I'm in Leeds. Don't suppose you know anyone reputable in the area?
Rattle aside I'm loving the guitar. Really enjoyable instrument.
Cheers Rob
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Post by rpsayles on Nov 15, 2017 15:38:31 GMT
Checked the tuner screws btw
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Post by Michael Messer on Nov 15, 2017 17:17:07 GMT
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Post by washboardchris on Nov 15, 2017 17:19:07 GMT
Hi, try Steve Evans(he is as good as anybody in the country)I think he is in Leeds
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Post by washboardchris on Nov 15, 2017 17:20:24 GMT
Hi Michael, you got in before me :-)
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Post by rpsayles on Nov 15, 2017 17:36:06 GMT
Of course cheers guys. I'll contact Steve if the truss check fails to solve the problem.
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Post by creolian on Nov 15, 2017 21:13:52 GMT
Hello,
I have no idea if it would work with a guitar but a mechanics stethoscope is great for localizing mechanical noise. The old skool version was a wooden dowel with one end on the suspected noise location and the other in the ear.
HtH, all best
Jeff
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Post by Michael Messer on Nov 15, 2017 21:47:58 GMT
Jeff, you have reminded me of my early times with National guitars. I would get a buzz in my guitar at 10pm, call Mark Makin and within minutes be in the car heading up the motorway to Nottingham (150 miles), where Mark and I would stare at the buzzing guitar until our dear late friend and brilliant engineer, Alan Timmins, would turn up in the wee hours and make a mechanics stethoscope to listen for the buzz. It was all a lot of fun, we got to hang out together and we learnt loads about National guitars, but as for finding where the buzz was coming from, it was TOTALLY USELESS! Highly recommended :-)
Shine On Michael
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2017 0:04:38 GMT
Even a screwdriver is adequate to use as a mechanic's stethoscope but really that's all it is. With the business end on the block (I'm talking cars here for a minute BTW) running at low rpm and the other to the ear you can detect a few problems but I'm not in the least surprised to hear it doesn't work on a guitar or indeed any situation not involving constant movement of interconnected parts.(Safecracking excepted). Bet you a pound to a penny that the buzz is a loose truss rod.
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Post by Stevie on Nov 16, 2017 7:47:08 GMT
Well let's hope it's not a broken rod? That could very well rattle in one pisition but not in another.
If the thread is stripped, StewMac do a neat tool to recover a bit from what remains as long as the damage is not too extensive.
e&oe...
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Post by Michael Messer on Nov 16, 2017 8:39:28 GMT
Whatever is causing the buzz/rattle, I am sure it will be a simple one to fix. If I had it in my hands, I could tell you what it is and probably fix it.
Shine On Michael.
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Post by rpsayles on Nov 16, 2017 12:09:24 GMT
Ok. Given the truss rod a quarter turn tighten. It turned easily and I was surprised not to feel more tension.
Now halfway through a string change just to idiot check it's nothing to do with the strings! On removing the bass strings I've noted that each tuning peg now has movement, substantially on the 4th and 5th minimal on 6th. It's this normal? Obviously with no string tension on. When the strings were in place there was no movement in the pegs.
Cheers
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