|
Post by beaverHausen on May 17, 2016 12:43:04 GMT
Just had this back from my query with AMI.. you’re right it was made 1997 June It was assembled in Germany, like all Continentals Brass Body (no German silver) made in Czechoslovakia DON Neck Kind regards Thomas Schlichenmaier AMI Musical Instruments GmbH Am Neufeld 8 81829 München Tel.: +49(0)89 - 93 99 66 9-1 Fax: +49(0)89 - 93 67 52 www.ami-gmbh.deGeschäftsführer: Günther Lutz Amtsgericht München, HRB 120526 Ust-IdNr.: DE 812 473 751 WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 86513910
|
|
gwoone
MM Forum Member
Posts: 1
|
Post by gwoone on Oct 12, 2021 4:38:06 GMT
Late to the thread but another data point, my tricone is serial number 924255. It has a large roman numeral 3 in black pen on the right side of the label. Every few years I try to repair the neck action because of the poor neck joint arrangement. Has anyone found a permanent fix? The sound is great so I keep it.
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Oct 12, 2021 7:49:02 GMT
Late to the thread but another data point, my tricone is serial number 924255. It has a large roman numeral 3 in black pen on the right side of the label. Every few years I try to repair the neck action because of the poor neck joint arrangement. Has anyone found a permanent fix? The sound is great so I keep it. Hello Gwoone, Welcome to our forum. We are not able to offer any advice without seeing a photo or two of what you are asking about. Are you saying there is movement in the neck to body join? Regarding the question about the number 3, not something I can help you with. Shine On Michael
|
|
|
Post by vastopol on Oct 12, 2021 12:28:27 GMT
Sorry to discover another Continental owner having issues with the neck angle of those early models. (It's always surprising to see how these instruments are wrongly described and priced, they could be great in some ways, but they could have some big troubles too).
I've been trying several times to stabilize this neck with minimal modifications, in a respectfull attempt, because we can see somewhat of john dopyera ideas inside those weird instruments. In fact the curved neckstick is too flexible to keep everything in the right place, perhaps someone (Franta? Frantz or Gunther?...) looks inside a fiddle edge Dobro, and believed that it could be a significative improvement to put these latter (and presumed better) ideas in a Tricone?.. It's a mystery, but if you try some reseach, you may find how much Franta had a great fascination for Dobro.
Another fact is this big screw....astonishing to see how they get this Idea; the worst they could have for sure in this case... The neck is connected with the neckstick by two dowels (as you can see in this subject:
So you can figure how this very big screw cut trough the two dowels, creating very a weaker point. This screw goes all the way across the back, the strange slanted wood blocs (clearly inspired by looking on Dobro too, but a Dobro doesn't had no dowells at all), and stops just under the top, so if someone try to screw it harder in an attempt to avoîd the neck movement, it will create a bump under the fretboard ! The glue joint doesn't give much surface to be very efficient, and sometimes (like in my guitar) it breaks lihgtly, but slow enough to keep the things together, and this joint can't be seen without dismantle the guitar......so you can spend much time to deal with a fluctuent set up...I've lost some hairs since...
(I've discovered that breaking when neck was dismantled; but it doesn't appear if you don't put tension on the stick...very tricky to see...).
Another strange fact on these first batch instruments is the way the body is lightly twisted, and the top is somewhat convex, due to the way the soldering was done, because heat tend to create tension if made too fast or without much care on the method to block the componements.
That means a very complex approach to get everything in the right place between the neck and this body.
Saddly I had to recognize that the best way to bring back these instruments in full potential is to rebuild them, with a straight neckstick, but it's not an easy task and not much people are abble to do this. Unfortunately the deletted member who have once tryed to do this seems to have make some mistakes, it seems this guitar been sold before giving satisfying results, (as he had said) I am very gratefull for him to share all these pictures in his inspiring process, thanks to this forum too !
This neck assembly is very different from vintage Nationals, old asian made instruments too are fitted with dowels but without the big screw, but nowadays, most asian made resonator instruments are made with an visible junction between neck and stick, around five centimeters inside the body instead of straight inside the pocket of the neck. They keep the dowels inside, but with a metal plate screwed on the back to reinforce it all, it could be a better idea... Another option is to unglue the fretboard and dig a channel for neckstick insert, like old Nationals, but it's an ambitous project... A less invasive method is maybe to deal with the dowell system.
Best of luck with your glorious Continental, one of the first "made after war" (saddly we know there's always some war somewhere since...) in significant numbers (NRP's put theirs on the market only in 94 !).
I hope you don't have to deal with a broken glue joint.
|
|
|
Post by lexluthier on Oct 14, 2021 19:50:56 GMT
Hi! I tried to make the curved neck stick on my Continental tricone work somehow before making a new one and it’s held for six years so far….., and I’m holding my breath less than I was!
I’ve described this in some previous post but again the screw isn’t need, the hole it leaves in the neck stick can either be flooded with a thin super type glue(just to possibly substantiate the neck dowels), drilled clear and dowelled, or, remove the neck dowels completely and replace. The dowels in my neck stick were loose in the neck, not in the stick, so I only had to do the former and refurbish the dowel holes in the neck.
That looseness to the neck/stick allowed quite a few degrees of deflection, so that certainly may account for these neck angle problems spoken of. My tricone has a strange flat area where neck meets body, like it was made for a larger square type neck. Or, they didn’t quite know what they were doing when ‘redesigning’ this guitar, weren’t sure how they were going to fit a neck on a curved body and came up with ‘an efficient solution’. The whole neck screw thing shows they were not totally clued in.
So even after re-fixing the neck/stick assembly and getting the neck angle ‘right’, I had a gap under the back of the heel that in truth was how it left the factory, Continental had filled it with an almost appropriately coloured hard wax! As my example is somewhat of a trainwreck to look at anyway and I thought maybe just a ‘bitsa’ factory second, I just packed it out, with Ebony no less. If you can’t hide it, make a feature of it I once heard someone say. If gwoone has a model with the same features as mine, you will probably have to pack it out too dude. Otherwise vastapol describes the problem very well and sounds very similar to my own experience.
vastapol, do you think the tops came out of the factory warped or twisted, or do you think they may have compressed afterwards. Mine has certainly folded in a little under string pressure but rebuilding the thing seems to have stabilised it and it stays in tune better than any guitar I own, or have owned!
All these problems AND it looks like hell. But it’s still a mile better than any oriental one I’ve heard and until something better comes along, and that may have to be another Continental, she’s staying!
Chris
|
|
|
Post by vastopol on Oct 15, 2021 11:22:51 GMT
Great to read this ! (I was wondering if ever someone wil give a try to bring some new ideas in this thread...wondering how my poor english can be so terrible...). At last, if someone could understand what I try to say, well, hope is safe.
I think the twisted bodies and convex tops are there since they left the factory, I've seen many pictures on the web showing the same characteristics, but somewhere latter in the production, they find the trick to get flatter tops. I've been working on steel, and I spoke about this phenomenum with some reso-luthiers, this kind of warpage is natural since you try to built a box from metal sheets, every type of soldering aplied on a thin surface will give some bump somewhere, the true art is to deal with it, to keep this bumping harmoniously spread on. On another hand as some builders choose, if you work on stiffer sheets of metal, you can work faster, with less chances of warpage, having a more solid instrument, with a bigger sound, more power, more bass, and stay better in tune.....(bigger doesn't means better for some ears, but how many ears are knowing what kind of sound flows out of a good Triplate? and how many can understand what they are listening?).
It looks like around 1994 they build theirs instruments with more conventional straight neck-stick...(and they don't show anymore that big screw on back). I tend to see some tension in the coverplate when the strings are tuned to pitch, so maybe the fact that the top is convex may let somewhat shrinking a bit inside under presure...
Very interesting to read your testimony about the flat area around the neck junction....no wax on mine, rounded at this point, but unfortunately the former owner of this guitar stripped the label (and put on the headstock a "National" decal; but to be honest that didn't improved his value that much...)...so I don't know when she was made, just similar to those 93's first batch.
Once I had a very good asian made (but modified) Tricone, as good as some more pricey ones (as stupid it can sounds, but I've tried more than one) but it was heavyer than this one, so I can't work with the big one without suffering some pain in my shoulder that's why I try to find a lighter one. Right now I'am really in love with this Continental, after all these work. We can find something very sweet and charming in an old fashion on these early models; nothing like the heavyer modern Tricones...someone can say, less bass, less power.....but sometimes less is more.
I wonder if some of these curved neckstick aren't more or less stiffer, mine was so thin, that I can flex it by hands....it's funny to see how the wood cutting was done, in some tightrope walking style ! always unique !
Another funny point is the screw hole at the center of the soundwell; it was made, but as the stick is curved, no use to put a screw there........it looks like they want to put a straight stick, but at the last time someone choose to try something "new"...
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Oct 15, 2021 12:21:53 GMT
Those early Continentals were made mostly from them seeing photos of instruments and bits of instruments. The fiddle edge Dobro neck stick, OMI Dobro screw in the back of the body. Their tricones were made from a drawing I sent them of a square neck tricone, which I drew round on a giant sheet of paper.
Shine On Michael
|
|
|
Post by lexluthier on Oct 15, 2021 18:45:50 GMT
Hey vastapol, I’m feeling like a brother from another mother here! Our experiences and feelings in conclusion seem to resonate in sympathy.
My very first post on this forum was about this guitar and I was in a right panic! Bought of eBay, from Germany, it arrived not as described to say the least. I had payed over £700 for it knowing it had a few problems, which seemed fair and all stuff I could deal with. It was interesting to say the least what was not revealed in photos. Sold in the hope that the buyer would be too naive to notice, the seller, a ‘Doctor’ no less, lucked out and had his eBay reputation dangled above him like the sword of Damocles while I ripped him a new one and offered to take these ‘parts’ off his hands for less than half the original price. I hate bullies and con artists. In the end it give me a great education solving the puzzle of this guitar, and my first real inside look at how a Tricone works.
My ears prick up anytime I hear Continental on the forum(or elsewhere else, I’ve Pavlov-ed myself!) so I know there are many threads and references about them that don’t seem to get picked up on later down the line when the subject re-emerges. This goes for many subjects of course, and Michael, I raise my hat to you sir for having the patience to keep repeating answers to so often asked questions.
I have had these thoughts before, why do guests not make better use of the search function? Many rightly speak of this forum as a great resource and it is, and a marvellous archive for the future. As someone on the dyslexic spectrum, I have to admit I find the search function a little ‘clunky’ and hard work.
I have had the thought more than once that on certain subjects it would be great collate information to the general consensus of at least the forum members, and, to deal with them most objective way possible.
I’m thinking ‘Best Knowledge’ on certain subjects like for example, a company’s history and what we can plot out about their instruments manufacturing evolution. EG, Continental or Brasher or many other lesser known brands often discussed here(we can rest easy creating a single point information source for National, I believe someone already has covered!😄)
Or, best practice(s) on general Resonator set up and maintenance. How many times do the kind and patient members of this forum go through the usual check list when someone in need asks the question ‘why is my resonator buzzing’. “Have you checked our the checklist first?” would be a great start and a great time saver for all.
I’ve no idea if any of this is feasible but two funerals in one day makes me think about the knowledge at least that is lost when people pass on.
Enough for now, Chris
|
|
|
Post by vastopol on Oct 18, 2021 15:39:17 GMT
Very sorry to know that you had to live some hard times. You're absolutely right about the memory, and the knowledge built here by many members all along the years, what a great source to read. I think a forum is a living objet, in this sense it cannot be perfect. Who want's to repeat again and again, "use the research function before creating a new thread"? It can sound very cold and rigid to any new comer here, and maybe kill some enthousiasm, or a natural freindliness involved by a forum. So the buzzing thread had to comme back again and again, it's a classic. Many poeples tend to see this space like a simple chatting space, with the same dynamic as a friendly gathering, but it's more subbtle. As we can see now on other social networks, how too much freedom of speech could be a big appeal to the worst of human being, so we can feel how subtle the work of Michael is to keep this place peacefull, interesting and positive in every ways. Just with some light and subtle moderating. I am truly admirative for this, and the best garantee of integrity is to see this space under his own name...its very courageous. We can see how others forums, more "free", or less carefully kept in order, can became anoying to read...but as I am deeply in search of informations, I know I have to keep in mind that every potential source can give an access, or some trails to explore and compare until I find something realy valuable. This respectfull place can't let appear everything, and we know that sometime musical history inplies names or facts, or structural and technical points, that can't be spread around without hurting, or opening infringment on some ideas or whatever; Honour to Michael to keep a benevolant but watchwull eye here. The Continental case is a big challenge to get the real facts, I've found some good things with the glorious "Research function", but also some things not absolutely true...and many tales too... I think it's also a part of the charm of searching some archeological stuff...when something is hard to obtain, it gives a stronger value to what you find at last... I trust in the idea of earning what we deserves ( I hope my pidgin is not too strange to traduce this concept).
I found some intersting views on this story that I don't realy want to spread here, as I don't want to disturb anyone, something tell me that you had made some deep resarch also, maybe we can share a bit by PM to enlight some mysteries? Or dig deeper in the mud...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2021 17:34:43 GMT
I bought a single cone Continental some years ago on eBay. It was made in the 90s and the seller said it had been built by Franta Javurek. It arrived with a terrible buzz, that a tech couldn't repair, though I eventually got rid of it, by simply detuning and retuning the guitar. I couldn't get on with the guitar and put it up for sale on eBay. Somebody saw the eBay description and wrote to me, pointing out Javurek had stopped making them before mine was made. I wrote to Franta Javurek, who kindly replied and confirmed mine was not one he had made. I still managed to sell it, but it was a disappointing and upsetting experience. I later bought a new Continental tricone that I liked. It had the nicest neck I've ever had, but eventually I decided to sell and replaced it with an old used MM Lightning. The Lightning's a great guitar and I like it much more the 2 Continentals. They seem to have stopped making them now. I love the photos of the models on the AMI page. Despite my experiences, I still want to rush out and buy when - those necks, headstocks, and bodies, especially looking silvery-grey in the photos are beautiful. www.continental-gitarren.de/modell-cs-1/
|
|
|
Post by vastopol on Nov 16, 2021 8:55:04 GMT
On This picture you can see a different color in the plating of the tailpiece, somewhat colder or blueish...I never see that before, most of the time everything is made with the same plating... Happy to know you find the way to kill the buzz...once again, it proves that not every guitar tech can understand those instruments.
There so many stories about Continental, it's hard to know what's really happened. I've read so much funny belief, even on a very renowned specialist web site !
|
|
|
Post by Pickers Ditch on Nov 16, 2021 11:44:50 GMT
Looks to me that everything metal on that guitar is Nickel plated (yellow hue) except the tailpiece which could be Chrome plated (blueish hue).
|
|