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Post by snakehips on Dec 7, 2015 13:02:05 GMT
Hi there ! After years of being asked at gigs if we sell any CD's, and being embarrassed when saying no, we don't, I feel it's about time my bandmate Prof Scratchy and myself make a CD. We did try it about 14-15yrs ago, recording about 12 tracks in a day, and mixing that evening - when we were a 3-piece band. Unfortunately, the results were poor - very sterile sounding - our playing AND the sound. The studio reverb added sounded horrible. I have never attempted to give, let alone sell a copy to anyone. Technology will have improved on that front I am assuming. Hell, I'll hopefully have improved too !! I'd like to do a proper CD, not one of those blue recordable CD jobs. We would have to choose what songs to do. We will need to find out if they are still in copyright etc. I've no how to go about doing that. How many CD's should we go for, what sort of CD liner/booklet should we have - I suppose all that goes down to cost - how much we wanna spend. My bandmate have already done a solo CD. I'd like to do one too, then we could have 3 different CD's to sell at gigs. Not saying we would sell any, ha ha ha !!!!!!! Any advice out there from anyone who has already done this  Many thanks in advance ! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2015 13:26:14 GMT
Being a part-technophobe, I was surprised how easy it is to use mixpad. I record the basic tracks onto a tascam dp0004, then transfer the tracks to mixpad for editing / mastering etc.
For the CDs, I've got templates that I do the (basic) artwork for and then print and cut out. I've got a friend who prints pictures onto the CDs and burns as many as I need (not many lol), although I could do this myself too if he gets bored with it.
As for selling CDs, I think you'd have no problem at all. My youtube hits are generally in the 200 regions - most of yours are practically viral.
TT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2015 13:48:26 GMT
Are you trying to make money with this, or just hoping to satisfy the cravings of your earnest fans? Do people still buy/use CDs?
For an art expo I did, I uploaded the, er, songs (*) to Soundcloud, then used a web site to create those scan code thingamajigs for them. People could use their telephones to listen directly to the songs. Worked great.
You could probably do something similar with a Bandcamp page -- and you can set your own prices there, or let people set their own prices.
Another thing I've wondered about doing is getting a stock of USB drives -- create a bit "cover" art for it -- load the songs on there and sell them. Probably cost less than making CDs too.
As for the recording itself : you probably already know someone who has all the necessary gear for this. You can always ask them for help. It's much easier to record when someone else is pushing the buttons.
(*)
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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 7, 2015 14:51:43 GMT
Hi Snakehips,
Many questions!
Copyright is not a problem. There is a lot false information and bollox talked about this subject. Most of the material you will cover, will still be in copyright. As a member of MCPS/PRS you can access databases of songs. So you'd type in the song title and it would show you the name of the writer & publisher. The way to deal with that legally, is to buy an AP2 licence from MCPS/PRS. The licence will cost 6.5% of your retail price on the number of CDs you manufacture. For example; if your retail price is £1.00 and you print 10 CDs, your licence will cost £6.50. It ain't cheap, but it is the correct procedure.
If you want to manufacture a real CD with ISRC codes (which is what you should do), manufactured by a proper company, rather than a Mickey Mouse manufacturing company, you will have to buy an AP2 licence. It is law. It is also the right thing to do when selling other writers material. You need to look at the MCPS website and check out AP2 licences.
Real manufacturing plants will probably not do less than 500. Most people order in thousands. Much like printing stationary, the more you order the cheaper it gets. To do it properly, they don't duplicate your CDR, they make a glass master to manufacture from. This retains ALL the information and makes a real red book CD.
CD booklets and packaging - that is all down to budget.
CDs still sell at gigs and in specialist markets, such as blues, jazz, folk etc, they still outsell downloads.
I hope that's helpful
Shine On
Michael.
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Dec 7, 2015 15:21:51 GMT
All of what Michael says above is right and should be done.
We were really lucky in the early 2000s when we banged out two CDs with our 5 piece electric band.
Being a bunch of older guys who started in the sixties we wanted to get as live and as a fresh sound as possible.
We were pretty tight from gigging so we decided to go into Purple Studios, Norwich and bang it down hard and fast.
Both CDs were done live, all together just like at a gig, on the floor with "dummy vocals" and then pukkah vocals dubbed on top.
No other over dubs or additions i.e. what we played together is what you got!
Patrick, the Purple Studio engineer did the engineering, controlled the desk and helped us with the final production and mixing.
We averaged 40 minutes/song - that time included mixing and mastering.
Blues Matters gave us a good review and we were booked on good stages at Colne and Burnley on the basis of the CD.
My advice, FWIW, is not to get hung up on production, perfection and technicalities but get an experienced guy on the desk.
Here's the only track uploaded on the tooob so far:
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Post by snakehips on Dec 7, 2015 16:08:27 GMT
Hi everyone !
Wow, that is excellent advice Michael. Many thanks for that - and from everyone else.
Now for getting down to it !!!!!!!!!!!
Many thanks again !
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Dec 7, 2015 16:29:45 GMT
Go for it, SH.
Have fun and let me know when I can get to buy one, y'hear?
PD.
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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 7, 2015 16:44:08 GMT
Snakehips, one further thought. Great playing and singing are not the only ingredients that make a great sounding recording. Pickers Ditch is right that you need to work with good people, or know what you are doing, to get a good sound. Pickers Ditch is also right in that with the type of music you will be recording, that everything live (no overdubs) is the way to go. If you are used to playing and singing together as a duo, then no matter what other suggestions people might have, that is how you should be recorded, because that is what you do. As soon as you separate things to get a so called clean recording, if it is not the way you normally play, it will sound wooden, stiff and lifeless. Don't spend 18 hour days in the studio because after the first 6 hours, you will sound tired.
It all depends what you are recording, but assuming it is a duo playing live, I would cut three or four songs per day. The first day may only get two or three. So three days recording, two days mixing (allowing for a remix or two) and then it must be mastered by a proper mastering studio, not by a friend who has the software. Mastering is (in my book) one of the most important ingredients of a great sounding record. There are only a small handful of people in the UK who I would trust to master my records. It is a very specialised area and a bad mastering session will destroy your recording. A great mastering engineer will put the icing on the cake and make it all gel together and sound beautiful.
The reason that great records sound great, is because of all the ingredients - songs, performance, recording skills, mastering etc... This is the reason artist hire producers. A great producer working with a great team is how it's done.
Shine On
Michael.
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Post by blueshome on Dec 7, 2015 17:04:24 GMT
All that's been said is very true, but what you want and what is possible come down to your budget and what kind of result you want. Obviously if it is a cd just to sell at gigs that is a different proposition to one to sell via online stores or in shops. It will all come down to your production values in terms of choice of studio and engineer and producer and where you get art work done etc. as well as how much time you have to devote.
Maybe a live performance recording is the way to go. Have 2 or 3 gigs recorded and choose the best from those. Then get a studio to edit and master. This would be a cheaper way to go and might give your record a great vibe, especially if you are not used to studio work.
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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 7, 2015 17:06:18 GMT
I hope my postings on this subject don't come across as me being pompous. It is just that I have been making records for 35 years, I have worked with some great producers, engineers and studios and have learnt a few things along the way.
Shine On
Michael.
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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 7, 2015 17:10:38 GMT
Obviously if it is a cd just to sell at gigs that is a different proposition to one to sell via online stores or in shops. Phil, why is that a different proposition? Shine On Michael |
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Dec 7, 2015 17:26:55 GMT
I hope my postings on this subject don't come across as me being pompous. It is just that I have been making records for 35 years, I have worked with some great producers, engineers and studios and have learnt a few things along the way. Shine On Michael. That's not pomposity, Michael. that's experience to be shared - one of the things that youngsters seem to ignore these days. Except Snakehips, cos he asked the question........  Grabs coat and exits running stage left before being accused of creeping.................................  |
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Post by snakehips on Dec 7, 2015 17:31:06 GMT
Hi Michael !
No pomposity was detected, let even thought of !
It is all good, sound advice ! ('scuse the pun !!). It also makes great sense to me.
Many thanks for that.
My bandmate had a CD made by a friend with a home recording set-up - but I'm not all that enthusiastic about something in the sound - the mastering is what probably lets it down, as I can't think what else. The other band I am in, just playing piano and Hammond organ, have a CD, but from before I joined the band. They have one track at the end of the CD that is just acoustic guitar+harp+vocal - and it sounds magical. Really warm, guitar recorded well, lovely vocal sound, everything great. I want to use that studio - as I know what my band mates sound like - and thus it sounds like the studio guys really knew what they were doing.
Many thanks for your learned advice !
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2015 19:38:52 GMT
Question for Michael - if your CD has no covers on it (all originals), what parts of this apply?
If you want to manufacture a real CD with ISRC codes (which is what you should do), manufactured by a proper company, rather than a Mickey Mouse manufacturing company, you will have to buy an AP2 licence. It is law. It is also the right thing to do when selling other writers material. You need to look at the MCPS website and check out AP2 licences.
And what if you have a couple of covers on your CD, what parts of this apply?
The way to deal with (covers copyright) legally is to buy an AP2 licence from MCPS/PRS. The licence will cost 6.5% of your retail price on the number of CDs you manufacture. For example; if your retail price is £1.00 and you print 10 CDs, your licence will cost £6.50. It ain't cheap, but it is the correct procedure.
Cheers
TT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2015 19:43:39 GMT
And with regard to pickersditch's post, I'm under the impression that filming a live tune / set and putting a studio track to it is fine with many booking agents etc for 'promotional work' as long as you call it a 'promotional video', and not a 'live video'.
TT
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