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Post by snakehips on Jul 8, 2015 13:16:56 GMT
Hi Michael, I know you don't do valuations for any particular guitar (and I do understand why). However, I was wondering if you are able to give a general bit of advice on how much I should quote Insurance companies for the value of some guitars. It seems to me that the value for vintage National roundneck Tricones vary wildly - and thus I am uncertain what pric e bracket I need to tell Insurers that it is worth. My 1931 National Style 1 Tricone roundneck - in very good cosmetic and structural condition. How much should I be insuring that model for ? I would think at least £ 3500 but perhaps up to £7000 (too much ) Insuring my music stuff in the home is expensive enough but insuring them for being out at gigs is even more expensive ! Thus, I want to try and get the right balance of insuring enough but without spending too much in over-inflated estimates of the guitars ! Many thanks in advance !! PS. I understand if you don't want to comment. PPS. I understand more now why many players gig with NRP guitars and leave their vintage Nationals at home !!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 15:23:03 GMT
I work for a medium sized insurance company. I'm certain(ish) that in the event of a misfortune, they would pay up properly - they win awards for it every year. PM me if you want to know who - or I can ask some 'insider' questions on your behalf. Also, I think there are big issues with insurance if you describe yourself as a 'musician'. TT
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Post by Quarterquay on Jul 8, 2015 16:04:25 GMT
There is an insurance company in the UK which has a specific section for musical instruments and musicians. I can't vouch for them personally but I was looking into instrument insurance recently and a professional classical musician I know mentioned they were good. I don't know about cheap! But good. They'll cover you for a variety of situations and circumstances.
I won't advertise their name, not sure if I'm allowed to but PM me if you want their details. Who knows, maybe Deuce works for them!
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Post by gaucho on Jul 8, 2015 17:12:03 GMT
Hey Richard, be careful and ask lots of specific questions. I'm a professional photographer and I recently went out on my own (was a corporate shooter for many years). When I first started freelancing, I was looking into equipment insurance and heard all kinds of horror stories from fellow photographers. A typical one goes... a good friend of mine and fellow pro photographer was on day 1 of a 3 day shoot when his truck got broken into and all his gear (computers, camera gear, lighting, etc) was stolen. About 10,000 U.S. dollars worth. He figured no problem he's insured and he had to go out that night and buy enough gear to finish the shoot. When he contacted the insurance company (he filed a police report and everything) he was told that the policy only covers your gear 500 ft from your studio door. Even tho it's a policy specifically for "location photographers"! They didn't pay a cent and that insurance is expensive. When I was shopping around and talking to agents, they assured me that my gear was covered on location. When I told them about my friend and asked them specifically what their policy would cover in a similar instance, they back peddled and couldn't give me a straight answer. All of them were like that. I didn't buy insurance and most of the other photographers I know don't buy it either. I don't know if it's as big a scam in the UK as it is in the US, but be sure to ask those specific questions!
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Post by slide496 on Jul 8, 2015 18:07:32 GMT
Additionally, here's a link to allianzmusicalinsurance's terms and conditions, where you might get some ideas as to what is involved in transporting and valuation in making a claim. They say they insure a range from student, buskers, professionals. www.allianzmusicalinsurance.co.uk/assets/0119-4-MP-Generic-Policy-Bklet.pdfFor stay at home instruments, perhaps these are covered by a homeowners personal property, if you are not a claiming professional use. If I were insuring I would want to make sure I understood what they would replace a vintage national with, cash, new instrument, new vintage national.
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Post by petej on Jul 8, 2015 18:17:23 GMT
my house insurance covers my guitars on the contents insurance,i just have to itemize them and tell them what they are worth,also covers damage and also theft from any vehicle,they payed up straight away when i had my house fire no question petej
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Post by mikenewport on Jul 8, 2015 19:10:29 GMT
.... there's usually the small print and in this instance it's, how do you replace a vintage National. Sure you would get the money but if the guitar has gone or beyond repair that's it isn't it.
Mike
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 19:18:51 GMT
Hi Snakehips
Like Petej my instruments are covered through my home insurance but if I was a regular gigging muso I'd probably look at a more tailored policy. IMHO you should insure for what you might expect to pay for replacements if the worst came to the worst plus a premium for other incidental costs ie import duty VAT etc and definitely quote your day job on the proposal form and state you're an amateur muso. The main thing is to be straight up (as I'm sure you will be anyway) since they will happily take your premium but in the event of a claim go through it with a fine toothcomb. Having put in my tuppence worth it sounds as if Deuce is best placed to advise you anyway! Oh and read the small print at least six times!
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Post by snakehips on Jul 8, 2015 23:08:51 GMT
Hi again !
Thanks everyone for your advice so far.
I suppose I should have said already - I have been insuring my music equipment for many years (at great expense !) - within the confines of my home, at least.
When I got married and we moved into a larger house we needed to get new house insurance and I wanted all my music stuff properly insured. When looking for new Home&Contents Insurance quotes, as soon as I mentioned that my musical instruments would be used for gigging, I was told that they couldn't be covered under a standard type home&contents insurance - even IN my own home !!! The critical point was that if I earn money at gigs using these instruments, even just one gig per year, no matter how small the amount, that classified my musical instruments as being used for business purposes and thus they couldn't be insured under domestic insurance. I was told I would need specialised insurance for that. So, at much greater expense, I got special home&content insurance, including all my musical stuff. I have renewed that Insurance deal for quite a number of years. I suppose I should have looked at the specialist companies that deal with musical instrument insurance, way before now. A highly respected musician friend of mine suggest ai check out the specialist musical instrument insurance company he used. He has lots of nice vintage gear and told me his insurance only cost a couple of hundred quid per year. I wanted to see how much it would cost to insure my items out of the house, at gigs, as well. I don't understand it ! The quote I was given was for well over £500 just for my gear insured in the house, and over £1200 for insuring outside the house, at gigs, and while unattended in my car. Those quote are based on the valuations I gave for my guitars - most I valued on the high side, from the point of view of sourcing vintage Nationals of similar model and condition, purchase, import charges and possible luthier fees. Perhaps my valuations are too high, leading to higher insurance quotations than necessry - I don't know.
I have many guitars, quite a few keyboards, PA equipment etc etc. i tend to decide which guitars to take the night before, depending on the gig and how long we play for. But I can't just insure what I bring, for insurance out of the home - I have to insure the lot ! I don't bring all of it to any one gig. I also don't gig all that often. Maybe 12-15 gigs a year.
I asked if I can just insure all my gear for inside my home, then phone in to insure a list of gear (I intend to take) for a just a 24-48hr period, as and when I need it - but was told it wasn't possible. Does anyone know of an insurance company that I can book in short-term insurance away from home, at short notice ???
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2015 7:27:52 GMT
Just curious... I can understand wanting to record using vintage gear, but why take the risk using it for a concert, when the sound is usually awful? Even in the best of circumstances, when the sound is really good, the amplification overrides enough of the sound of the actual instrument that it almost doesn't matter what you play. And most of the people watching have no clue about different guitar makes anyway. Seems to me that the risk isn't worth it.
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Post by snakehips on Jul 9, 2015 7:42:02 GMT
Hi again !
1. I want to play them 2. They look cool 3. I spent the money on them so want to get the maximum use out of them. 4. I tend to sell something if it doesn't get played enough 5. Modern guitars can sound just as awful so I might as well play ones I love the most !
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Post by Michael Messer on Jul 9, 2015 7:58:19 GMT
Hi Richard,
I am not prepared to get involved in discussion about insurance or value on a public forum, but I am perfectly happy for the discussion to be here.
Shine On Michael
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2015 8:03:16 GMT
Also, snakehips is quite well known in the blues field, including as a collector of vintage nationals. It would be weird to see him (or e.g. Catfish Keith / MM) turn up with something other than a decent national / similar. As for me, I'm several rungs down still and usually play to a pub half full of drunks, so cheapo homemade (preferably with sharp edges) will generally do fine. TT
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Post by snakehips on Jul 9, 2015 8:09:12 GMT
Hi Michael,
I was only meaning in a general sense, not any particular guitar. Guidance, I suppose.
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Post by Michael Messer on Jul 9, 2015 8:25:58 GMT
Hi Mickeyz,
I have a few points that relate to your comments:
1 - Surely the idea of amplification is to amplify the sound of a musical instrument. If it doesn't matter and the amplified sound is always bad, then according to you, all professional musicians that use amplification should use the cheapest instruments and most disposable instruments they can find. Surely that is not what you think? 2 - The idea of using a particular instrument on stage is not to use it to impress the audience, it is because of the way it sounds and plays. Unless of course the instrument is worn as jewellery, which sadly is often the case. 3 - The idea of musicians using replaceable instruments that are of no importance to the musician playing them (in other words; a disposable instrument), is not to me what musical instruments are about. A musical instrument of any monetary value becomes an extension of the musician's body and is the tool they use to express themselves with. The more it is played by the musician, the more it becomes a part of that musician. Whether they are cheap, expensive, vintage or new, once they become a part of a musician's sound, they are all irreplaceable. Sure, you can get another, but it will never be the same as the one you lost.
Shine On Michael
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