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Post by petej on May 19, 2015 5:18:07 GMT
Ask John Alderson of Delta guitars i think he has the cones for his guitars custom made or he used to he might be able to help.
petej
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 7:52:22 GMT
Do you really need a custom cone? It seems unnecessary, and in any event, figuring out the ideal material and thickness for the cone would be a bit of a trial and error affair in my view. Delta guitars have produced a 12 string reso, so they will have some experience of this. There aren't many examples of 10 or 12 string resos - I've seen photos of 10 string spider bridge guitars, and a few 12 string biscuit bridge type guitars.
I made plenty of 6 string electric resos, and have also made a 12 string reso and used a standard spider bridge arrangement for that, as I reckoned that would be more robust than a biscuit bridge arrangement. When you ask about "milling out" are you talking about routing a solid body to accept the cone? That's pretty easy with a standard router. If this is a project you are making yourself, my advice is to do some accurate working drawings (in particular a long section thru' the neck and body so that you you determine the precise neck/body/cone/string action arrangement before proceeding, then order the parts, and don't start doing any woodworking until you have all the components. Also my advice is if it is a solid body, make it a bolt-on neck so that you can shim the neck or adjust the neck angle.
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Post by Michael Messer on May 19, 2015 10:22:14 GMT
I agree with John, you shouldn't need a custom built cone > AND....you won't get one because nobody that I know would set up a mould for one cone.
My only quibble with what John has said is that a regular 9.5 inch National or Continental cone is easily strong enough to take 10 or 12 strings, as long as the geometry of the guitar (break angle / neck angle) is correct. A Dobro spider bridge cone is also fine, but it will have a different tone. It depends if you want a National sound or a Dobro sound.
I would say you need to do more research and really understand what you are trying to do.
As far as I know, there are no UK cone builders. The cones that Pete has mentioned do not exist anymore. Making good cones is a black art that only very few people on this planet can do properly. I only know of four makers that make really good National-style cones that actually work; National NRP, Fine Resophonic, Beeton, Continental.
Shine On
Michael.
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Post by Michael Messer on May 19, 2015 13:12:51 GMT
Hi deltawave,
Looking at the guitar I would say, don't even try to use a resonator because the low strings - .074, .090, .0110, will not work well. Low frequencies and resonators do not go well together. A few years ago, National and other manufacturers tried marketing bass resonator guitars which very quickly disappeared from the marketplace because they were not very good. A few people do use them as electric-acoustic basses, but that's because they look cool.
Shine On
Michael.
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Post by Michael Messer on May 19, 2015 13:44:53 GMT
I'll eq & program the spectrum balance once installed.  If ya think this is crazy wait to hear my other ideas...lol ....I don't even know what that means, or what one would do with a ten string guitar. I don't think it's crazy, just pointless. Shine On Michael |
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Post by Michael Messer on May 19, 2015 14:07:40 GMT
The ten string resonator guitars that I know of don't have strings as heavy as yours will. They go down to a .070 ....which is as low as resonators can handle.
Shine On
Michael
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Post by Michael Messer on May 19, 2015 14:27:58 GMT
You have missed the point I made, which was that bass resonator guitars don't work and that is the reason they disappeared from the marketplace.
I am not trying to be negative, I am just trying to help by giving my own honest opinion about your idea.
Shine On
Michael.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2015 5:50:05 GMT
I've got to say, if a customer came to me asking for what you've got in mind, I'd more than likely politely refuse to do it. The width of the 10 string saddle over a typical reso cone would be a structural compromise, and as Michael points out, the response of the cone to the bass strings is likely to be disappointing. I think it's a flawed concept that would be mechanically and structurally compromised, and would be unlikely to perform well acoustically - potentially a waste of time and money, and I wouldn't put my name to it, nor would I take the money knowing it's likely to be a failed experiment.
I sometimes get customers asking me to make things that haven't been done before, and I have to use my practical experience to determine whether it's likely to work or if it will be a waste of time. Experimental and innovative instruments can be great, but as with any experiment, you have to be prepared for failures, and to cope with results you might not like.
Without a doubt you can have your 10 string resonator, but don't assume that it will automatically be a resounding (or resonating) success..and don't expect it to come cheap. When you say that "I would programme and EQ the lower spectrums to sound better", presumably you already have in mind some type of pickup system. There's a limit to what you can do with the pickup system - if the basic sound is poor, then no amount of electronic tweaking is going to wring an excellent sound out of it. You do say that it's an electric guitar, and the combination of an electric guitar with a resonator is always as bit of a strange product...and I should know, I've made enough of them. Do you have a specific idea of what you want the resonator to contribute to the tone of the instrument? So much of the amplified sound is shaped by the pickup rather than the resonator cone itself, and there's a whole range of stuff that can be used, from the typical magnetic pickup to purpose-made piezo pickups with dedicated preamps...and combinations of both.
By the way, for this sort of thing, your best bet would be to get a custom coverplate fabricated to cope with the unusually wide saddle. I don't there'd be any point in tinkering with a standard one....but the coverplate and handrest are the least of the technical problems to be dealt with. Fitting in a cone into an existing electric guitar isn't going to be viable, so you are looking at a built from scratch custom guitar. If you don't have the practical skills to build this yourself, you need to discuss your ideas with a luthier who is willing to take on the project and who can work with you to bring your ideas into reality. Good luck with it.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2015 9:13:56 GMT
As regards fitting a cone into an existing electric guitar, of course it can be done...that's the usual way of making a reso-electric guitar, and several people on this forum have made guitars that way, but you want a 10 string guitar, not a 6 string...so presumably you'll need a custom neck and a custom body..ie built from scratch..unless you are going to adapt an existing 10 string that's got a body shape that will be able to accommodate a resonator cone.
Resonator cones are usually spun over a former on a lathe...or the cheaper ones are pressed...they are not "built" as such. The gauge of the aluminium (which is extremely thin), the specific grade of material and the way its spun are all crucial to how well the cone performs. Heres a video showing someone spinning a reso cone, your aluminium guy might find it useful to see how it's done.
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Good luck.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2015 9:25:05 GMT
That won't work, because the bridge needs to be much closer to the centre of the guitar to get any type of cone in.
Unless you alter the neck / scale drastically.
TT
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2015 10:09:02 GMT
If you don't get this bit right, everything else is a waste of time. Your bridge needs to be in the position where the red line is.  The bridge on that guitar is currently set back more like a bass to accommodate the bass strings. I don't think you can do it with that guitar body. Lengthening the neck is probably not possible, and if you only alter the scale (i.e. refret it), you then have the problem of the bass strings being rather short. You will need a much longer body if you want the bridge to be in the same place (i.e. 0-12th fret distance = 12th fret to bridge +/- a few mm). Building the body from scratch probably. TT |
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Post by Pickers Ditch on May 20, 2015 10:11:33 GMT
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Post by oscar on May 20, 2015 11:21:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2015 11:22:57 GMT
There is room, a nip here and a tuck there. To keep intonation correct, your cone would have to be in this position relative to your current bridge position.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2015 11:30:56 GMT
I wonder if a tricone (or even two tricone cones?) set-up might work, but you might still need a different body.  |
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If ya think this is crazy wait to hear my other ideas...lol
