highlander tricone pick-up woes

[Deleted]

Hello
Before I start to try and work out what is wrong with a friends tricone highlander, what are:
- common issues
- battery issues
At the moment, it sounds extremely distorted. Previously, it just didn't work 'properly'.
Are they pretty bad anyhow?
It currently in a 2010ish NRP black tricone, which itself is rattling badly.
TT

[snakehips]

Hi there !

I've had problems with Highlander pickups including the Magnaphonic Tricone pickup.

First to check, and obvious one, but still best to ask : have you checked the 9V battery ? Stick a new Duracell 9V battery in.

Next thing - have you used anything to dampen the short section of strings between the tailpiece and the bridge ???
The Highlander Magnaphonic pickup will also amplify the short section of strings unless they are dampened.
The installation instructions for the Magnaphonic pickup suggest you will need to do this.
Interweave some foam or leather or thick felt between the strings, between the tailpiece and bridge - and see if the sound improves.

Assuming it's not any of the above simple problems, the problem is likely to be one of 2 things, in my honest opinion, having had a fair bit of experience on this matter.

1. The Magnaphonic preamp is gubbed ! Unlucky. Apparently there have been bad batches of them - and I have had a few.
You will either need to get a replacement (contact Highlander about this) or remove the preamp entirely, and the stereo jack socket, and solder on a new MONO jack socket - then use an externl premp instead. I am about to order an Orchid Electronics acoustic guitar preamp for some of my Nationals - as they come very highly recommended from highly respected musicians that I know. I have played my NRP GS Tricone through one of these preamps - and it sounded better than the Highlander preamp.

2. Perhaps a less serious problem but one that will need you to investigate inside the guitar - is the Magnaphonic pickup and metal plate that is fitted under the T-bar.
The metal plate may have loosened and vibrates when the guitar is played - it therefore needs reattched properly.
There may not be enough clearance for the pickup - ie. The metal plate and/or the T-bar may actually be hitting the Magnaphonic pickup as it vibrates during play - or even worse, there may be zero space above the pickup. In fact, the T-bar may actually be pressing down on the pickup - and could damage the pickup.
Bear in mind, when the pickup is installed and you need to check for clearance from the T-bar hitting the pickup, that you should measure/check this WITH the strings all on, and tuned to pitch. If there is not enough of a gap for air between the pickup and the metal plate, the. You need to file down the underside of the T-bar a little, then reattach the metal plate, to give a bigger gap. The installation instructions suggest you might need to do this.

Plenty things to check, but my fear is that your Highlander Magnaphonic pickup is faulty.
I went through a lot of experimentation - changing the connections and jack sockets etc etc, expecting the fault was with faulty installation (soldering) by me, but getting a guitar-shop expert to re-do all the soldering, and with better quality jack socket, phono plug etc, it made no difference.

When faulty, it either doesn't work at all, or it sounds OK at first but within a minute or two starts going very distorted, then stops working.
Your description sounds very much like how mine behaved.
Some of my single-cone Nationals, equipped with Highlanders have gone the same way.

The pickup itself is probably fine, but the preamp might be gubbed. Check the gap above the pickup is enough to stop the metal plate and/or T-bar from resting on or hitting the pickup, during play. Do so by setting up the guitar without the coverplte on, so you can look at what is going on, under normal playing conditions.
The Magnaphonic pickups are by far the best pickup for a Tricone so stick with it, even if you have to ditch the preamp !

[Michael Messer]

Hi TT,

I am sure Snakehips knows what he is talking about, I wouldn't doubt that. However, I have had a Highlander Magnaphonic pickup in my Tricone for 14 years and I have never had any problems at all. It works perfectly and I have never put any kind of felt or foam, or anything between the bridge and the tailpiece. I am afraid I would never do that on any resophonic guitar, because any kind of dampener or gasket kills the beautiful overtones and affects the overall tone of the guitar, especially with Tricones.

As you know it is not easy to cure a fault without seeing the guitar, but the first thing I would do is find why the guitar is "rattling badly". You cannot get a pure clean pickup tone with a rattling cone problem. The first thing I would check is to see if the cones have sunk and the T bridge is touching the pickup. They have to be very close to work properly, but that doesn't allow much leeway for the T bridge to drop a few millimetres.

One of the main causes of problems with Magnaphonic pickups is that they are not fitted correctly and that the distance between the pickup and the T bridge is wrong.

I really do think you have to cure the acoustic/resophonic rattle before you do anything about the pickup.

Shine On
Michael

[Deleted]

Thanks very much for the great replies.
The preamp scenario seems quite likely - especially after the second botch job (see below).
It was initially installed by Dave King, and was OK except presumably for those overtones etc - if I get it working, I'll try the damping trick snakehips suggested.


And how about felt gaskets??
Cheers
TT

[Michael Messer]

I have never seen such a mess! ....what is going on with that T bridge?

The felt inside the T does absolutely nothing and as for the 'thing' attached with wire-twist, WHAT IS IT?

Dave King fitted is correctly, but what has happened since.....?

Shine On
Michael

[Deleted]

When I find out, I'll let you know, but removing all that crap, and rotating the cones snugly has solved the rattle!
TT

[snakehips]

OMG !

What the hell is that THING cable-tied to one of the legs of the T-bar

And the "gasket inside/under the T-Bar ?? !!!!

Unreal !!

Michael - About the foam weaved between the strings on the tailpiece end of the bridge - it is recommended by Highlander in their installation instructions. It's just very light touch to the strings - not enough to dampen the playing section of the strings or stop the movement of the T-bar - it's just for the "non-playing" section of the strings as otherwise they get amplified too.
You notice how the single-cone Highlander pickup only goes around the playing-side half of the biscuit ? That's so it doesn't amplify the non-playing short section of strings between the tailpiece and the biscuit bridge.

The pickup and preamp in your guitar would have been made well before the dodgy batches, hence no problem with your one.

From the troubled experience I've had with about 4 or 5 highlanders, all purchased about the same time, mid to late 2000's, I've had a fair bit experience of the problem, diagnosing the problem and the solutions.
I've heard various stories about Highlander being difficult to contact, the husband and wife team splitting up and the business basically grinding to a halt. Presumably that is all resolved by now and they are functioning as a company again.

[Deleted]

Thanks again.
Is removing the preamp straighforward? Is there a link out there?
Cheers
TT

[snakehips]

Hi there !

Piece of cake !
Open up the guitar, and carefully remove the cone.
Just be careful removing the cone as the pickup cable is attached to it's underside and is not very long (you don't want to tug the cable badly and pull the pickup out of the inside/underside of the biscuit, risking damage to it.
The end of that cable has a phono plug (aka banana plug) - and you just pull that off the preamp.
Then, unscrew the 2 screws that the preamp is secured to the neckstick with.
Unscrew the stereo jack socket nut and the preamp comes out.

You could cut off the phono plug from the pickup cable, then solder on a mono jack socket and re-install that where the stereo jack socket was.
Then you use an external preamp from then on.

However, if you do that but then want to use another Highlander preamp (say Highlander send you a replacement) you would need to resolder a phono plug back on - AND that is not easy as the phono plugs that Highlander use are not great quality - the solder points are too close together for me to manage decent seperation (you would see what I mean if you ever tried to install a Highlander pickup yourself, as the soldering part is the most difficult bit, by far !). During my various attempts at finding out what was wrong with my Highlander pickup systems, the guitar tech/luthier I got to check out my faulty pickups said the phono plugs Highlander use were cheap ones, and he used better quality ones, with better solder points, further apart from each other (to prevent shorting out).

So, what I did was buy a cheapish hi-fi cable - a phono "extension" cable (male connector on one end, female on the other, and cut off the male end (plus some of the cable length) and solder on a mono jack socket instead. Join that onto the pickup cable's phono plug and put everything back together. This way, no parts of the Highlander pickup set are modified or damaged/cut etc - you just unplug and remove one main part, and replace with a simpler extension cable (that's had a mono jack socket soldered on - and it's thus easy to re-install it back to originality, by swapping the parts back - no further cutting or soldering required.

Hope that helps.

[Deleted]

Thats great,
Thanks a lot.
TT

[snakehips]

If you have any other Tricones available, with working Magnaphonic pickups installed, you could swap out the preamp from the one that works, to the faulty guitar.
If all of a sudden the guitar makes sound, then the first preamp is at fault. If it still doesn't make sound with a different preamp, the pickup itself could be faulty instead.

[Deleted]

Seems as if the screw holding the pickup in was touching the t-bridge when strung up - there was a large washer on top of it forcing it up by about 3mm from the surface.
Taking that off allowed me to raise the pickup by about 1mm too.

I put a 'mushroom' directly under the pickup, as this might stop the feedback problems apparently.

The rattle has completely gone, and although there is a very slight difference in tone with the new mushroom (not that anyone will notice), I'm hoping that the guy will now be able to play it live - which he hasn't been able to do for over two years now.

Thanks again
TT

[Deleted]

Also, I tried it without the preamp - it worked, although there was a bit of buzz.
The preamp has got some good earthing going on.
TT

[Michael Messer]

Hi TT,

That's good! I had a feeling that it was related to the T bridge touching the pickup.

I don't have any of the Magnaphonic problems I am hearing about on this thread; I understand that mine is an early one, but feedback and unwanted overtones between the bridge & tailpiece, have also never needed to be addressed. It takes a bit of EQ-ing to get it sounding sweet and I think it needs a good PA system or acoustic guitar amp, but I have been very pleased with my Magnaphonic. Prior to the M'Phonic I had tried every pickup and gizmo in the known Universe and never had anything that was satisfactory. The purest and by far the best way to amplify a Tricone is with a mic, but occasionally for various reasons we all need to plug in and the Magnaphonic is great.

Shine On
Michael

[twang1]

When I bought my NRP tricone with a Magnaphonic pick up already installed at the factory it sounded very thin. I knew something was wrong and contacted Highlander twice but...no answer. I checked the guitar together with Bob Brozman and he contacted Highlander on my behalf receiving immediate answer, so I found out that the gap was too little. I filed a bit the T bridge and...fantastic sound! But it took 6 months to find out and solve it...
Since then (11 years) never had a problem. With a mic in front and some pickup signal it's a BIG sound!
Frank