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Post by eggy on Nov 9, 2014 9:16:12 GMT
I am very lucky to be seeing Wolf twice live in 1960`s with Hubert.Once Hubert had the Bartolini the other I think he play a white Stratocaster.Oh,He sounded fabulous playing both.He used Fender amps when i saw him live.Can`t remember model though. He and Willie Johnson are my favorite electric blues guitar men.
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Post by bod on Nov 9, 2014 11:29:10 GMT
I think this thread is a good illustration about people becoming far too concerned with the instrument rather than the music. Yes, the guitar is a factor, but it is the player that makes the music and gives life to it. It brings to mind this quote from Chet Atkins, someone who knew a fair bit about guitars and knew his way around the fretboard, when asked what his favorite guitar was he simply replied, "The guitar". Interesting, but, try as I might, I can't work out what Atkins could have meant by that... (it sounds more like an instance of guitar mysticism, than its rebuttal to me - but what do I know... ). Here's another Atkins quote, from his foreword to his book Me and My Guitars: This search for 'that perfect dancing partner' included many "custom" modifications, here's one example: Seems to me Chet Atkins was as smitten with guitar modding and tinkering as many others are, his playing, on the other hand, does put some distance between him and many who share his interest in the instrument.
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Post by zak71 on Nov 9, 2014 13:41:22 GMT
It brings to mind this quote from Chet Atkins, someone who knew a fair bit about guitars and knew his way around the fretboard, when asked what his favorite guitar was he simply replied, "The guitar". You mean Chet, the incorrigible guitar tinkerer? He nagged Gretsch to change to humbucking pickups, experimented with stereo wiring, electronic effects, contributed to the designs of a bunch of signature models by not one but two different manufacturers...to pass him off as an "example of someone who doesn't care about brands/models" is misrepresenting Chet's relationship with the electric guitar. But now I'm curious, how does this thread demonstrate " people becoming far too concerned with the instrument rather than the music" - it's a guitar forum and people are discussing guitars. I have yet to hear ANYONE say that "the gear makes the musician/music"...you'd have to try really hard to read that into this conversation. The suggestion that professional musicians (and that's EXACTLY how Hubert saw himself, he was PROUD of it) don't take their gear seriously is false. Sure, you can always find an example of an impoverished rural musician making beautiful sounds on junk, but that is not who we're talking about here. Every time I hear the " gear doesn't matter to a true artist" argument, 9 times out of 10 it is coming from someone who can't afford the guitar they want.
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Post by blueshome on Nov 9, 2014 13:43:29 GMT
I recollect meeting Hubert at Burnley and asking about that guitar, having seen him in the 60's. He said it was something that Wolf had bought for him because he thought it looked cool. As others have said, he could probably get a good sound out of anything with strings on.
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Post by mitchfit on Nov 9, 2014 15:21:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2014 15:30:47 GMT
Page used it on Kashmir, a keyboard heavy track. Not sure if he used it on anything else. When I saw them in 1979, it came out for just that tune - probably cos it was tuned in DADGAD. TT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 7:31:25 GMT
I'm out of here.
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Post by bod on Nov 11, 2014 10:25:42 GMT
@ ChickenboneJohn: The Hollowbelly clip is kinda fun in a knockabout / pantomime sort of a way, but I still don't see how any of that relates to the rest of the discussion in this thread.* Also, simply saying, 'QED,' doesn't demonstrate anything - just as when politicians simply say, 'I refute that' they don't. In both cases an argument, analysis, demonstration or proof is implied and owed. To be clear, I'm not saying that you can't demonstrate it, just that you haven't (yet). I can't speak for others, but I'd be interested in the reasoning if you'd be interested in presenting it.
* (edit) Sorry, that's not quite right - I can see how it relates to, and illustrates one kind of highly polemical response to petermontague's initial questions: These questions have not received that much in the way of direct discussion or answers (maybe we might come back to them), but so far as I can see that is not because everyone is going, 'gonna get a me a Gibson Rarebird, swap out the pups for some Megakillerz, change the nut to unobtainium and be a champeen tonemeister' (or somesuch thing) but rather because various contributors have in various ways suggested that there is something awry in the picture of the relationship between player and instrument that provides the context in which those initial questions happened to be raised. I thought all that was interesting enough to merit discussion, is all.
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Post by zak71 on Nov 11, 2014 18:52:07 GMT
The quod erat demonstrandum I see here is simply reverse snobbery. "You can't possibly be a real artist if you expend more than a passing thought on gear" - yawn. As for that Hollowbelly guy...he's certainly no Hubert Sumlin in the musicianship department, and his tone is pretty painful. His diatribe about guitar forum folk has nothing to do with someone asking about Hubert's unusual looking Italian guitar. Using cobbled-together gear is as much of a contrived "statement" as some guy spending thousands on "upgrades" guitar forum style. In this case a tuneless Seasick Steve knock-off. Truth? Hilarious. Let me know when he plays something as memorable as Hubert's most forgettable lick.
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Post by blueshome on Nov 11, 2014 20:39:58 GMT
What Zak said!
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Post by zak71 on Nov 11, 2014 21:04:07 GMT
Both "gear obsessiveness" and "gear dismissiveness" can be taken to extremes of absurdity. However, the former is comical but sincere, the latter is simply contrived posturing with a side order of superiority.
I see two things in that video:
A guy taking potshots at the membership of guitar forums - mostly hobbyist guitar players indulging in their hobby - guess he couldn't find an easier target to mock. I'm sure he feels really superior to those pathetic working stiffs who spend their expendable income on the stuff that they enjoy. Shame on those people! Let's all hold hands and ridicule them while smugly scraping away at awful sounding cigar box guitars.
I also hear and see a guy who has "I don't give a damn" as the primary aspect of his stage persona - and he certainly sounds like he doesn't care.
One man's "truth" is another man's third rate Seasick Steve imitation.
Hubert Sumlin came from the old "dress better than your audience" school of showmanship, I saw him show up to the dingiest dive bar gigs dressed to the nines. He cared about his tone, too...because he wanted the audience to care about his music.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 21:34:40 GMT
I'll be devils advocate... I saw hollowbelly a couple of years back and his 3 string stuff was quite entertaining. I'm fairly deaf, and I can't make out what people sing or say anyhow, so it was all over my head. As for chickenbonejohn, he makes / restores guitars very nicely and is a very good player. I like nice guitars, and I make mine as good as they can be. IMO they don't sound too far short of some real nationals / dobros - and for around £150. But I wouldn't try to make a rubbish one and kid myself that an audience would prefer to see me play that rather than a better one. Having said all that, one night I saw gwyn ashton pick up a players £70 korean dobro, stick it though a fender amp and stun us all. TT
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Post by pete1951 on Nov 11, 2014 23:47:55 GMT
Having said all that, one night I saw gwyn ashton pick up a players £70 korean dobro, stick it though a fender amp and stun us all. TT[/quote] The old `Cheap guitar through good amp trick` (it help if you can also play REAL well) We seem to be going round in a circle PT
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Post by mitchfit on Nov 12, 2014 0:43:53 GMT
Both "gear obsessiveness" and "gear dismissiveness" can be taken to extremes of absurdity. However, the former is comical but sincere, the latter is simply contrived posturing with a side order of superiority. Zak, agree completely. but see nothing wrong with an entry level player who broadcasts "conspicuous consumption" with gear/kit they seem to be unworthy of. they still love the medium greatly, and although it may be an ill advised approach they are just striving to make their own music. i know a "kid" [to a chronologically challenged "kid" like me] who got a top of the line les paul for his first guitar. it can be agonizing to witness his attempts to produce pleasing sounds from it. so what? it seems to make him very happy, why should that cause me any problems? maybe he will get past the larvae stage and emerge a butterfly with enough practice? [or his offspring, with some selective breeding...] he will still have an instrument that rightfully gives him pride of ownership. this being a guitar player gathering, i am sure we all feel sympathy for the many truly gifted players who are stuck with trying to make silk purse sounds with sow's ear instruments. esp--the many blues greats we would have never even heard of without the prophetic insight of Alan Lomax. they at very least deserved the chance to be rewarded for their efforts/abilities with enough money to eventually get decent gear. but with the "flying fickle finger of fate"* calling the shots in the music industry, this has proven not exactly guaranteed either. they will still know they created some good music, rightfully making them proud also. $0.02, mitchfit * www.google.com/search?q=flying+fickle+finger+of+fate+award&biw=1600&bih=683&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=t9tiVLjeOoOQyQS-oIB4&ved=0CDMQsAQ#tbm=isch&q=Rowan+and+Martin--flying+fickle+finger+of+fate+award&imgdii=_
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Post by northbankgooner on Sept 28, 2015 5:24:21 GMT
I am really surprised that my post seems to have been misconstrued by so many people. It was in no way intended as a criticism of Hubert Sumlin, I didn't see your post as "criticism" of Hubert, I just doubt that this Winston Weatherall guy got close enough to Hubert's guitar to make an assessment of whether or not it was "crap" - he probably saw a gaudy pearloid-covered and pushbutton-festooned piece of 60s Italian accordion-influenced weirdness and made an assumption. Personally, I welcome any posts talking about Hubert. I came across this post & forum by accident & just wanted to comment. I knew Winston for around 15 years as he was a boyfriend to my mother. I also knew most of the T-Bones with the exception of Gary Farr. Winston made guitars himself & is not the sort of person to jump to assumptions.
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