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Post by Dessery on Sept 19, 2014 16:20:02 GMT
Hi Guys
I am thinking of maybe buying a new Parlor guitar. I currently have a pretty decent 000 (Recording King ROS626) which has been amazingly setup and with a sunrise pickup and it really is a great guitar but doesn't quite grab me tonally like a parlor does, I also have a little Gretsch Americana which is so much fun and great value for money but I am thinking of trying to sell them both to get a better parlor.
I am struggling though to find a good one, it seems most seem to be pretty cheap (sub 300). The dream would be a pre-war ladder bracer one but most of the ones I have seen tend to be around the £2k mark.
Can anyone recommend anything sub £1k? I am open to new/vintage suggestions.
Many thanks David
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Post by zak71 on Sept 19, 2014 17:26:14 GMT
I am struggling though to find a good one, it seems most seem to be pretty cheap (sub 300). The dream would be a pre-war ladder bracer one but most of the ones I have seen tend to be around the £2k mark. You're not going to find a modern ladder braced guitar in your price range. The current modern ladder braced stuff (Fraulini, Hauver, the new Collings "Waterloo" Kalamazoo-alikes, etc) are all priced well above what you want to spend. On the other hand, there is no shortage of 1920s-30s guitars made by Regal, Lyon & Healy, Harmony/Supertone, Oscar Schmidt, etc that can be had for significantly less than what you're planning to spend. I don't have any personal experience buying from any of these sources, so don't take it as any kind of endorsement, but this should give you an idea of what's available and at what price... www.vintagebluesguitars.com/projects/stella-decalomania-oscar-schmidt-ca-1930www.vintagebluesguitars.com/projects/oscar-schmidt-galiano-decalcomania-ca-1930stellaguitars.com/westbrook_concert_guitar.htmvintageparlorguitars.com/052814A.htmlvintageparlorguitars.com/052814Q.html...and these are dealer prices. You can find more of the same for even less on ebay. I've had many of them over the years, and most of them were purchased on ebay for much less than you're willing to spend. The best of the bunch, a late 1920s spruce/mahogany "concert-sized" Stromberg-Voisinet, was bought for a mere $100 on ebay, and then received $450 worth of work from Michael Hauver. Pictured next to it is an spruce/oak Columbia from the 1910s which I bought fully restored for $350. I've had that S-V for a long time now, and it never fails to inspire. I wish I could say that about modern x-braced "parlor" guitars. They just sound "small" and don't have much volume or personality, and none of the ladder braced sound. The modern budget-priced stuff is built too heavy (and braced entirely differently) and finished too thick to sound comparable. The two guitars pictured above are phenomenally loud (for any size), there's simply no substitute for ladder bracing if that's the sound you're after. If you're looking for something to play slide on, I'd suggest a birch-bodied guitar. For some reason, in the realm of parlor guitars, they always make the best slide guitars. If that's what you're interested in, I'd recommend looking for an Oscar Schmidt "First Hawaiian Conservatory" guitar (and budget some extra money for a neck reset if it hasn't already received one, they all need them). I have yet to encounter one that didn't sound great when in playable non-neglected condition. Should have probably kept this one, it played and sounded better than any Oscar Schmidt Stella I've owned before or since. Generally speaking, the birch-bodied Oscar Schmidt stuff sounds excellent for slide, but I find them very hit-or-miss for regular playing. For that purpose, the spruce-topped Oscar Schmidt guitars seem to fare noticeably better. Unfortunately most of them have somewhat inflated prices on account of the Stella name being hyped by certain dealers for so long. I can't complain too much, the last one I had was purchased for around $450 and re-sold for $1750...in spite of being a pretty average sounding specimen.
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Post by Dessery on Sept 19, 2014 17:55:34 GMT
Wow Zak!! Thank you so much for that incredibly detailed response, that was just what I was looking for.
I have looked at a few vintage parlours in the past but never quite knew what was good and what wasnt.
I am definitely thinking more for finger style as I think my reso's will always be my go to for slide.
I will take a look at the links and start scanning eBay.
Thank you so much!! David
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Post by bluefolk on Sept 19, 2014 18:01:39 GMT
Hi.Something ive been thinking about myself.For a diffent sound.A Parlour.There is a new ladder braced guitar that Collings are making.Its called Waterloo. A double 00 ?
Video text - Bill Collings has recently unveiled the Waterloo line of guitars, and the first two offerings are L-OO style instruments with both ladder and x-braced models available.
These first Waterloo instruments are meant to emulate the look and sound of simple, depression-era guitars like Gibson's L-OO and Kalamazoo lines. Their dry, snappy tone makes them perfect for country blues, ragtime, and other fingerpicking styles. They have a thin, satin lacquer finish, a bound soundhole with no rosette, and substantial necks with a pronounced "V" profile.
This video directly compares the ladder and x-braced options
Other ones ive been looking at are blueridge BR 341 (1 7/8 neck ?) www.sagamusic.com/products/product-details.aspx?item=BR-341
Alvarez MPA66SHB (44.45mm neck) alvarezguitars.com/guitar/mpa66shb/
Faith FMSB45-BNC (43 or 45mm neck) www.guitar.co.uk/faith-fmsb-bnc-mercury-classic-burst-scoop-parlour
These Art & Luthier Ami 's are said to be good too . www.artandlutherieguitars.com/ami.htm
Be interested in seeing other people's picks.
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Post by bluefolk on Sept 19, 2014 18:06:59 GMT
And zaks Vintage route looks great to !!
P.s Sorry the Collings Waterloo is $1890 usd,so might be to much.
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Post by zak71 on Sept 19, 2014 18:28:56 GMT
The Collings/Waterloo certainly looks appealing and sounds good in the videos I've seen, but I have yet to speak to someone who has played one in person, or even locate a dealer that has one in stock.
From what I understand the Waterloo is in the $2000 range. The options are ladder bracing vs x-bracing and trussrod vs non-adjustable reinforcement bar. Not sure how the selection of features affects price.
Doesn't make that much sense to me, considering you can get a 1930s Kalamazoo KG-14 in excellent playing condition for a little less than that, and a KG-11 for much less.
On the other hand, they ARE significantly less expensive than the Hauver and Fraulini stuff, so they might be a good option for those who are paranoid about the durability of vintage guitars (in spite of the prevalence of guitars which are 80, 90, even 100 years old are still in excellent playable shape). Then again, operating under the assumption that Desserai is in Europe, a $2000 guitar would be subject to a hefty import/duty tax, so it may not be such an attractive price after all.
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Post by zak71 on Sept 19, 2014 18:30:01 GMT
Ah, $1890? I wasn't off by very much. Once again, not sure how much of an upcharge the bracing selection/neck reinforcement options bring.
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Post by bluefolk on Sept 19, 2014 19:15:32 GMT
Think i would rather have the Kalamazoo over the collings also.Love to play one of the ladder braced CW though. This guys got some good vintage at ok prices in the uk. www.vintagetraditionalguitars.co.uk/ The couple of Kalamazoo KG 14's ive seen in the uk went for 1400-1500.
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Post by gaucho on Sept 19, 2014 20:02:33 GMT
I currently have a 1920's Regal and a 1930 Supertone. I always pick up any parlor size guitar I can find in shops and try them out. I've never heard one that had as sweet a slide tone as these. And that's including some very expensive modern guitars (like a Martin John Mayer model). The modern one's I've played just didn't sound that great for slide. Probably a whole different deal for finger style playing tho…
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Post by zak71 on Sept 19, 2014 20:23:44 GMT
I looked at his inventory...most of the guitars there are labeled "SOLD" and the rest are cheap entry-level Harmony-made guitars from the 60s at inflated prices, like this - www.vintagetraditionalguitars.co.uk/details.php?id=164 You can buy these for $75 on ebay... the very few older (also entry-level) guitars he has on his site appear to have had some very poorly thought out "repairs" such as the obscenely oversized bridge on this Regal-made Oahu: www.vintagetraditionalguitars.co.uk/details.php?id=182 To make matters murkier, on that page he has a video of a much higher quality Regal being played by a guy who's a regular USA-based ebay seller of vintage guitars (roadtoastt)...pretty deceptive. £549 for a tampered-with budget model that can readily be found on ebay in much better condition for $200 or less. The only remotely interesting guitar I see on his website is this one www.vintagetraditionalguitars.co.uk/details.php?id=169 and of course it doesn't seem to be available for sale. But what's that at the bottom of the page? A video of ME playing MY OLD SUPERTONE. I'm involuntarily shilling for this guy via the miracle of youtube. Hooray. I would avoid this guy based on the selection and pricing I see on his website.
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Post by bluefolk on Sept 19, 2014 21:46:48 GMT
Well sorry about that Zak.I bow to you superior knowledge on this. He lists the Sold ones still, as examples of what he may have coming in,and for info on a guitar type. We dont have many quality choices for vintage parlours in uk,at least at fair prices.Ebay is the way.but its always a bit of a gamble.. Fancy having a video of you!
(I hope you dont mind Desserai..) So there are no modern X braced Parlours the would be as good for blues fingerpicking/a little strumming as the vintage Ladder braced birch guitar .Or at least passable ?
Are the 50s 60s Harmony worth looking at ?
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Post by simonf on Sept 19, 2014 21:50:28 GMT
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Post by gaucho on Sept 19, 2014 22:14:20 GMT
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Post by zak71 on Sept 19, 2014 22:16:25 GMT
Are the 50s 60s Harmony worth looking at ?
The "parlor" sized all-birch entry-level instruments made by Harmony under the Stella name are not quality guitars. They can be fun novelty instruments, but they'd be a step DOWN from what Desserai already owns. Once again, if you find a playable one for $75-$90, great, but they're guitars that were intended for beginners, and don't play particularly well...although some of them sound surprisingly good. The 50s/60s Harmony H162, H165 (mahogany top version) and the more upscale Harmony Sovereigns are cool guitars in their own right, but entirely different animals from the pre-WWII guitars. First of all, they are built much heavier, and while ladder braced, they have more braces, thicker tops, and a much drier sound. They're also OM sized guitars, not parlors. There's a guy on ebay who sells H162s with neck resets in the $350 range. You can get one that needs a neck reset in the $150 range if you can do the work yourself. These are decent guitars, made with good materials (no laminates), but they're just an entirely different breed of animal. If you listen to Mance Lipscomb, or watch the videos of Lightnin Hopkins playing a H165, you'll get a good idea. Also, it seems like almost half the musicians pictured in the booklet for the excellent George Mitchell Collection box set are photographed holding H162s. They were extremely popular, and there's a million of them around. Once again, they ALL need neck resets if they haven't already had one. I don't know how good the neck angles were from the factory to begin with. I've had a bunch of them over the years, I still keep a really beat-to-hell H162 with a DeArmond pickup in it as my "electric" guitar. This one has soaked up a LOT of sweat, and smells like an ashtray, but if you want to sound like Lightnin'... I actually have a video where I compare a H162 to the S-V and Columbia (which I mistakenly identify as being from the 20s, it's actually older) in my photo above: In spite of my mediocre camera mic, the differences should be readily apparent. The H162 sounds constipated in comparison to the other two, but there are certain things it really excels at, such as Mance Lipscomb style 'dead thumb' thumping. The two older guitars are much better for ragtime.
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Post by slide496 on Sept 19, 2014 22:23:45 GMT
"Are the 50s 60s Harmony worth looking at ?"
Not everyone will agree but for fingerpicking I don't think, they are great for slide IMHO - I have silvertone, Stella. Harmony and Kay from that era along with a couple 30 - 40's parlors.
I would say 3rd recommend for looking around at Neil stellaguitars.com for mainly fingerpicking - Mike Hauver used to do the repairs and set ups on his and Neil designed one so its modern - may have a couple of them left.
Here's a link to his youtube page:
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