daren
Serious MM Forum Member
you can only get better lol thats i keep telling my self!
Posts: 20
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Post by daren on Feb 20, 2005 21:10:14 GMT
i was just trying to deside what would be the most usefull length or thickness of bar for lap guitar as ive been playing around with my steveson Bar(lap dawg) and, I'm thinking maybe it's a little to big clumsy for me. It's lenth is 2.75 ins which i'm feeling is a little short. I have just been haveing a look to see what i can get on the web & have been looking at bollet & flattened ended snub noses maybe i need a couple ie fat & fin or long and short. they come in all sorts of size's from what i have seen. I see from one of the old thread's that some people just use the chicken bones and brocken bit's they find in the shed ect.. I'D rather not go there yet lol my guitar is all new and shineing like mad i gess i could ask use's a diffrent way! lol here go's If there was only one pease of steel or glass you could fit in your case what would it be?....& if it's that good lol where can i get one ;D Daren
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 20, 2005 22:06:05 GMT
Hi Daren,
The Stevens bars and Lap Dawg bars are very good tools and used by numerous players. However, it really is a personal thing and you just have to experiment with different 'steels' until you eventually settle with one type.
It may be an expensive exercise, but I would recommend you get all the different types and try them out. All slide players have a large collection of metal & glass objects for sliding on strings!
If you want to try a Hawaiian bullet, the best one available is the King Slide Hawaiian Bullet from LRC.
What you have read on this forum about chicken bones, medicine bottles, socket sets, cut throat razors and various metal tubes, are all related to bottleneck style in regular position, not lap playing on a Dobro. To get a good tone from a square-neck Dobro you really do need a heavy solid bar like a Lap Dawg or a Hawaiian Bullet. Lightweight tubes & various glass implements are no good as they have no tone on a square-neck Dobro. Rememeber....there will always be the exception to any rule, so someone will know a great lap style Dobro player who uses a bottleneck or something similar.
Regarding your choice of bar or bullet - there are advantages and disadvantages to both. What those are is the subject of a whole other thread!
Good luck,
Shine On, Michael.
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Post by LouisianaGrey on Feb 21, 2005 9:05:37 GMT
After trying a Stevens and a couple of Shubb-Pearse I used the Dunlop LapDawg for a couple of years and liked it very much. In the end I found it a bit short, and moved to a Smith steel Most players seem to try everything until they find one they can really get on with. As Michael said, we all have a hidden stash of bars that we don't use any more or only use for certain applications. Bear in mind also that different bars suit different styles of playing. Hawaiian players tend to use bullet bars, and certainly when you're starting out they seem to make it a bit easier to avoid accidentally catching other strings. However, if you want to play Jerry Douglas style you will need a bar with a sharper end in order to do the pull-offs. That's what the pointy ends of bars like the Lap Dawg, Tipton, Scheerhorn and Smith were designed for.
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 21, 2005 11:41:11 GMT
However, if you want to play Jerry Douglas style you will need a bar with a sharper end in order to do the pull-offs. That's what the pointy ends of bars like the Lap Dawg, Tipton, Scheerhorn and Smith were designed for.
Hi Pete,
Interestingly, this is where rule books and generalizations go out the window. I play country style Dobro with a Hawaiian bullet and to do pull offs I just flip it over and use the blunt end. To me the Dobro bars are limiting and do not allow for angled chords very easily. I find the bullet smoother and easier to handle, although I do appreciate that for an inexperienced player the Dobro bars are easier to hold as the bullet takes a long time to get used to.
I think it is great to set ones targets high, but be careful about using Jerry's name to define a style. He is one of the greatest folk musicians alive and his playing style uses techniques from all styles of lap slide playing.
Shine On, Michael.
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Post by LouisianaGrey on Feb 21, 2005 12:27:41 GMT
Hi Michael, I totally agree about Jerry - I only took his name in vain because he's probably the "modern" style dobro player with the greatest exposure, and he has been very influential in developing a certain way of playing bluegrass dobro. However, like other great guitar players of all genres, what makes him truly outstanding is not his technique, great as it is, but more a matter of what he chooses to play in any given situation.
I think we each tend to find a bar we like and then adapt to its limitations, and you're right about bar slants - I found them easier with a Stevens than with the Lap Dawg, which is quite short. I was thinking of those sequences of very fast hammer-ons and pull-offs that Jerry does, which I think are made easier by the angled end of the Scheerhorn bar he uses. Of course, one of the things about that style of playing is that it tends to be more of a straight-bar style. Sadly, Brother Oswald seems to be less in favour these days, and many of the amateur players who aspire to be like Jerry have a very narrow approach to music.
Ir seems to me to be a bit like aspiring "blues" players who just want to play like Clapton or Hendrix and aren't interested in the wider styles of music that influenced their heroes. But that's a whole new subject.
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 21, 2005 18:29:01 GMT
Hi Pete,
Modern Dobro playing is a whole different thing to the older styles which were very close to Hawaiian guitar playing. In fact in one of my conversations with Brother Oswald he commented that modern Dobro players are more like lap style banjo players, rather than Island slide guitar in country music. Well I can undestand his point of view, although I do love modern country Dobro as well.
If I was advising a novice wanting to learn to play country Dobro in a modern style, I would advise them to go back to the early guys and work your way forwards. Cliff Carlisle, Clell Summey, Darby & Talton, Casey Bill Weldon, Sol Hoopii, Jim & Bob, The Kalama Quartet, Roy Acuff & the Smoky Mountain Boys, Josh Graves....playing with Flatt & Scruggs. Then move forward into the more modern players ...Mike Auldridge, Jim Heffernan, Rob Ickes, Jerry Douglas....etc. This is not a few weeks or months of study, it is a lifetime of it! Do not just study country Dobro players, study slide guitar in general in all styles of music.
As you said in your message; It is not about what licks you can play, it is about how you can express yourself and move people's emotions with your chosen instrument.
Shine On Pete! Michael.
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daren
Serious MM Forum Member
you can only get better lol thats i keep telling my self!
Posts: 20
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Post by daren on Feb 22, 2005 12:14:56 GMT
thank' s you guy's I order'd a Glass bullet just to see what it feel's like useing that shape plus i get to see what a nice lump of glass sound's like(two bird's with one stone Maybe lol) i'm going to pick up a few as you guy's suggest plus i don't plan on getting to attached to any of them unless i come across one that just seem's to do the hole deal. I'll make a point of ordering a steel King's Bullet also. I almost picked that one while i was at L R C last week. I wish i had to be honest as i 'm finding the lap dawg a little to short. i've got big hand's so a bigger(longer) lump will be no problem it can only help to my thinking.
well i'm going to practice the sailor's hornpipe now till i'm sick of it ;D It remind's me of blue peter never thorght i'd be learning this number lol still good for G scale practice & do i Need practice!!!!
thank's Pete & Michael
Daren
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daren
Serious MM Forum Member
you can only get better lol thats i keep telling my self!
Posts: 20
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Post by daren on Feb 22, 2005 16:07:36 GMT
hi michael refering to what you was saying to pete.....
[glow=red,2,300]If I was advising a novice wanting to learn to play country Dobro in a modern style, I would advise them to go back to the early guys and work your way forwards. Cliff Carlisle, Clell Summey, Darby & Talton, Casey Bill Weldon, Sol Hoopii, Jim & Bob, The Kalama Quartet, Roy Acuff & the Smoky Mountain Boys, Josh Graves....playing with Flatt & Scruggs. Then move forward into the more modern players ...Mike Auldridge, Jim Heffernan, Rob Ickes, Jerry Douglas....etc. This is not a few weeks or months of study, it is a lifetime of it! Do not just study country Dobro players, study slide guitar in general in all styles of music. [/glow]
I'm vary much into Blue's no just Country. Just about most Folk music, Rock,Pop you name if it's good i'll tune in and that will probably come out in my dobro playing if i stick with it ,which i plan to do
I what a old National to lol but well she'd(the misses)kill me ;D.....so i won't rush that one....
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Post by Russ Young on Feb 26, 2005 18:01:39 GMT
Daren -- I trust you ordered your glass bullet bar from Ian and Diamond bottlenecks ....
I've got one and like it very much; unlike most other glass bars it's heavy enough to get the job done. Ironically, the only one of my guitars that doesn't sound good with glass is my 1937 Dobro, but it's a quirky instrument in its own right. Hopefully it will be a better match with your Lebeda.
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daren
Serious MM Forum Member
you can only get better lol thats i keep telling my self!
Posts: 20
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Post by daren on Mar 1, 2005 11:16:28 GMT
hi russ,s iv'e got my glass yesterday & so far i'm happy with it. It has a nice sound. I found some one on ebay selling glass bullet bar's made by Royal Doulton for twenty pounds. Its the first time iv'e bought Royal doulton crytal for me or useing ;D. I'ts alway's been for the girlfreind or mum & puting on the top shelf to look at. That sort of thing in the past.
A few month's of slideing & i should Know weather it really is the finest crystal (as that's what it say's on the box lol)
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Post by Ian McWee on Mar 2, 2005 9:47:51 GMT
Hi guy's, Hey Russ - yes..it is And daren...yes - it is!!! ;D Enjoy your new slide - and good luck! Ian. www.diamondbottlenecks.com
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Post by Colin McCubbin on Mar 6, 2005 0:20:08 GMT
Hi In,
Just a question. What font are you using for your website text?
I've just visited the site and most of it is un-readable on my PC under XP Pro, using both IE and Firefox browsers.
Aloha
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Post by Ian McWee on Mar 6, 2005 9:54:47 GMT
Hi Colin, To be honest - i haven't a clue myself! We use a company called Visualise U.K. based in Bedfordshire to deal with all aspects of the website....in Bob Brozman's words, i'm an 'analogue man in a digital world' . When we first fired-up this latest edition of our website, we announced it to the Internet world - and DID receive a couple of mentions about the 'unreadable wording' from a couple of guy's Stateside - but it seemed to be fine for most. I have to get in touch with the boy's at Visualise this coming week - i'll ask them & get back to you Cheers, Ian.
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Post by Colin McCubbin on Mar 7, 2005 18:03:30 GMT
Thanks Ian,
I've landed at your website before, but always leave before I browse too far since the text then and now is almost unreadable. Hope you fix it for your sake
I have a collection of about 60 prewar bars/slides of all sorts and sizes, mainly for Hawaiian style playing, some are the flat bar types and some are round with flat or round ends. Some are plated brass, some steel, some bakelite but no glass....
I also have original National brand and Dobro brand bullet bars in their boxes and interestingly they are far smaller in length and diameter than the Brozophonic bar that Bob hauls round the world.
Ron Smith, Michael Messer and I had the National bar copied some years ago, first in Stainless Steel and then for extra weight in Phosphor Bronze , I believe that Ron Smith has them still available at his frets.co.uk site.
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daren
Serious MM Forum Member
you can only get better lol thats i keep telling my self!
Posts: 20
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Post by daren on Mar 9, 2005 23:02:24 GMT
Colin GGGGGGG that's a lot of Bar's & slide's. I must say after getting the glass bullet and playing around with it, i like the sound the glass give's the Dobro but it's not as good for picking and bending string's. So for now The lap dog is King [glow=red,2,300]But for how long??..... lol i not planing on 60 a dozen mybe ;D[/glow] thank's colin, I may get in touch with Ron about though's national bar's Daren
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