|
|
Post by waffle on Aug 30, 2013 10:14:34 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Matt on Aug 30, 2013 10:41:08 GMT
...$50 000? I thought the Style 1, 2, 3 etc were only defined by their engraving patterns, so this wouldn't fit into any of those categories anyway? I'm sure Mark or Michael will know better, but either way I'll take the 5-10 mint Nationals you could get for that price over the one with the slightly different engraving...
Edit: answered my own question by reading the listing more closely, Style 3 engravings with additions. Also, Don Young seems to have valued it at $3500 in 1988, which would be $6688.42 in today's money.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mark Makin on Aug 30, 2013 10:54:31 GMT
This is a new addition (A13)to a small grouping of Triplates that Bob Brozman and I discussed 25 years ago. This particular A series is an unknown one although we have 8 other triplates listed in it. When Bob's book was being written, these were originally considered as part of the Chicago A series but that seems unlikely as they exist in a group from A2 to A46 - the Chicago list starts with other basic instruments at over A100. These also seem to be custom Triplates - certainly special orders. A2,and A46 are also Styyle 3's (although, in the light of this one, I can't say if they have 'wild rose' additions or not!)
The earliest instruments in this list A2, A3, A11 all have two patent numbers and a stamp that says "made in USA" - this definitely dates the instruments to mid 1931 or later, so if A13 has the same stamps (which I've yet to find out) then Don Young's letter of authenticity, is less than accurate in its dating. Apart from this, there are production details that are much later than 1927 anyway - headstock, tailpiece, fingerboard, grilles etc.
|
|
|
|
Post by waffle on Aug 30, 2013 13:14:44 GMT
Yes i see what you mean about production details Mark,the extra engraving did remind me of 'Wild Rose'.I know the price is daft, but thought it an interesting piece.
I have been looking at Nationals original pricing of Triplates.Regarding the style 3 it seems for an extra $30 you could have the 4 .I'm wondering if that would make the style 3 a more scarcer model than the style 4 today, as buyers would overlook it and just go for the top model?
|
|
|
|
Post by Mark Makin on Aug 30, 2013 14:03:21 GMT
Hi waffle
That's exactly right. The 3 is a rarer and more desireable instrument- certainly as a round neck. (not by much). Some people think the three sounds better and John Dopyera was on record saying the Chrysanthemum engraving was too much and hurt the tone. This may have been sour grapes because he disliked George Beauchamp who designed it and (logically) preferred the design (Style 3) done by his wife Elizabeth!!
|
|
|
|
Post by Mark Makin on Sept 1, 2013 18:45:35 GMT
For anyone that's interested - I have just spent quite a bit of time drawing out the pattern from extra photographs of this instrment and have come to some different conclusions about this triplate (A13).
Firstly - the guitar is actually a 'stock' Style 3 (Variation 3) with fronds ascending. The 'additional' wild rose patterns on the coverplate and the centre of the back are designed to fit in the available space on the existing Style 3 pattern. They are done by a "different" hand to the main engraving and most probably after the instrument was originally finished.
Secondly - it seems to have a "pat pend" stamp. This now changes the possible date. I think we can now be quite specific about it. "Pat pend" stamps occur from early 1928 to the end of 1931 (even though the patents were issued in around Jun 1930). Style 3, Variation 3 engraving patterns occur on round neck Triplate S46 (Style 0 series made after the first german silver run from 1930-34)and also square neck #1387. Both of these instruments are made around June of 1930 which is when I believe this one was made.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mark Makin on Sept 3, 2013 12:38:30 GMT
As the available photos were not very good, I have produced another of my illustrations to show in detail what "A13" actually looks like. Here it is  |
|
