Help - any info on this amp?

[resonance]

Hi folks.

I bought a National amp off a buddy about 17 years ago when I got my first guitar (I was 13). There was a lapsteel that was originally with it, but (unfortunately)he sold that before I took posession of the amp. It's been without a fuse since the day I got it, and I'd like to replace it so I can finally try this amp out properly - but I can't find any information about it. Model, year, value, etc. The serial number looks like it's G20229

Here are a couple pics of it:



www.fivedaysadrift.com/Res/National1.jpg

www.fivedaysadrift.com/Res/National2.jpg

There's been a piece of tinfoil in place of the fuse from day one, but I'm not keen on screwing this amp up. Any light you guys could shed on this would be extremely helpful.

Thanks
Res

[Michael Messer]

Hi Resonance,

I hope you don't mind that I pasted your photo into the message as it is easier to view that way.

Your amplifier is a 1960/61 National Studio "10" Quality Compact.



This was the smallest of the range at that time and boasted - 3 inputs, removable safety fuse container, jewel pilot light, volume control and switch, 3 tube circuit, 5 watts output, 8 inch Jensen speaker. Other amps at that time in the range included - Val-Trem "40", Dynamic "20", Val-Verb "60", Glenwood "90", Val-Pro "80" and the Bass Amp "70".

Your Studio "10" is a wonderful amp and should be in working order! They have a wonderful tone, in my opinion the small ones are the best ones. I use a National Westwood from 1959/59 with almost identical spec - they are great amps.

Be careful about getting it repaired and serviced. It must only be done by a 'valve freak' and not just any amp repairer.


1958/59 National Westwood

Shine On,
Michael.

[resonance]

Wow, that's great. Thanks a lot Michael

Res

[Deleted]

I have a National Amp which is very simlar to the Westwood shown in this thread. Instead of the word National it has a small metal National Emblem on the grill cloth. It has 3 Tubes, 12AX7, 6V6 and 5Y3. Model No. 1201. Does anyone have a schematic for this model or any more info about it?

Hope these images are properly linked

www.vif.com/users/quentin/images/P6261546.jpg

www.vif.com/users/quentin/images/P6261549.jpg

[Michael Messer]

Hi Quentin,

I am not able to lay my hands on the catalog that has your amp, but I know I have seen it somewhere! Yours looks like an earlier model of the identical amp. Mine has the same plate on the back with technical info. From looking at your photo, your amp appears to have two controls on the top...volume and tone? If that is the case, they are not original. The Westwood amps only have one knob...on/off and volume.



Shine On,
Michael.

[Deleted]

Thanks, for the quick response.

So this is a Westwood model?

Yes, I added another control with plans to add a tone control. Still unconnected. I guess I'll just experiment.

I did replace the speaker with an 8 inch, 4 ohm Eminence Legend. The amp sounds amazing (and loud) now with slide electric. I'm planning on using it for Harmonica to as soon as I get my Shure Green Bullet Mic.

[Colin McCubbin]

Hi, Quentin & Michael,

Michael, you probably saw the catalog when you were here, it is in the little 1959 foldout catalogue, I think you scanned that one..

Quentin,

Yes, you have a 1958/9 Westwood amp, with the National shield it is the last amp featured in the 1959 catalogue. These morped into the 1960's versions fairly shortly after that catalogue.

US$59.50 ..... Yours has the Canadian testing labs stamp on the plate on the back, so it must have actually been made for the Canadian market.

I'm without a scanner at present but I'll scan the page and post it here 'real soon!' Eh!

Aloha

Colin McC

[Colin McCubbin]

Both scan(s) taken from 1959 National Sales catalogue.

[center]Apart from the extra input the circuit may well be this one![/center][/color]

Aloha!

[Deleted]

Michael,

I took the time to capture the schematic of my Westwood 1201E. Instead of drawing it out from scratch I just used the VALCO 510-11 schematic and made the required changes. It's very similar. The only component value that I'm missing is the capacitor on the volume control. I removed it because it has the effect of boosting highs as you drop the volume which I didn't want. Other than that, it's the original circuit.
If you know what the value of this capacitor is I can update the schematic.

www.vif/com/users/quentin/images/Westwood_1201E_Schematic.jpg

BTW, I use this amp mainly for Harmonica (with a Shure Green Bullet) and it sounds great!

[Colin McCubbin]

Here is Quentin's circuit :


I have posted a very similar circuit at Notecannons, for the Valco/Gretsch 6150. Looking at that the capacitor should be .001



In almost all cases post 1950s Valco/Supro/National valve/tube circuits are identical to Gretsch so searching for Gretsch sometimes finds what you want!

[Deleted]

Wow, thanks this thread really really helped me. I have been looking for info on an amp I picked up and I am pretty sure it is the National Bass 70. It sounds/sounded decent with my guitar for the first 6 hrs I owned it.. the power tubes were loose inside and making the common microphone noise so. I took them out. The tube was an rca 6Ca7 and had 8 pins. I went to a local guitar shop and they told me to use the new EL34 7pin tube by Electro Harmonics. Brought home the new tubes, put them in. no sound:(

Tried the old tubes that were working lastnight.. no sound. I have a qualified amp builder/repair man I am taking it too tomorrow but, I wondered if someone might be able to help with schematics or what I might have done wrong/what is wrong.

Here's a few pictures of my Bass 70. I probably overpaid for this - $300 but, does anyone know approx current value? Just curious to see how bad I overpaid.

Thanks for any help.

[Michael Messer]

Hi Jayg,

Thanks for posting pics of your amp. It is indeed a National Bass 70 amp and looks like it is in beautiful condition.

I can't help you with schematics (maybe Colin can?), but I can tell you to be very careful about whose advice you listen to regarding repairs and replacement tubes/valves. You must get the best tubes and the repairer must have an understanding of the value of vintage wiring and parts.

This will interest you >


Shine On
Michael

[Deleted]

Wow, very cool! Thanks Michael! I took her in today for repair. The man repairing the amp is actually a custom amp builder in my city (London Ontario Canada) He seemed surprised at the condition of the amp, saying "Thats in really good shape".. I hope he gets her fixed up for me nicely. The volume pot worked in reverse, the original 2 prong plug is going to be changed to a grounded plug, he mentioned it might need a filter cap? I assume he thinks it might be part of the "no sound" problem. So far those are the three issues that are to be fixed.

All in all, he comes highly regarded as the guru of London Ontario for Tube Amplifier Repairs, Mods and Custom Builds. I just can't wait to see how it sounds after he warks on it:)

[Michael Messer]

Jayg, I am sure your amp man knows his stuff and will do a great job. Let us know when you get it back. I am interested to hear what you think of it as a working amp. Do you play guitar or bass?

Shine On
Michael

[Deleted]

I am a guitar player/legend on my own couch, I'll mic it up when I get it back and post some mp3 sound clips.. I think I can also arrange a bass player to run it through some licks as well. I'm interested to see where it'll shine most.

The repair guy seems very busy, he said a couple weeks maybe.