don10
MM Forum Member
Posts: 9
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Post by don10 on Apr 27, 2015 21:31:58 GMT
Hi Bryan,
Thanks for the reply. Yes... the roofing nails... If I had to guess I would say it was the previous owner of the music store that I owned. Hard to say for sure I guess. Do you feel this removes all value?
Don
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don10
MM Forum Member
Posts: 9
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Post by don10 on Apr 27, 2015 21:43:03 GMT
Body by Ted (Charles Edward) Brasher; neck by Arthur Hensel; roofing nail repair on back by unknown. Hi Bryan, Thanks for responding. I'm still getting used to writing in a forum, I used quick reply but not sure it worked. The nail repair that you pointed out... Would you say that it pretty much removes all value from the instrument? Thanks Don
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Post by bryanbradfield on Apr 27, 2015 22:32:20 GMT
I was being cheeky concerning the nails. I don't believe that it removes much value from the instrument, and it certainly does not remove ALL value from the instrument. From a practical stand-point, the first thing I'd be concerned about is why the nails were inserted in the first place. I'm certain that there is a better method for fixing whatever flaw caused the need to insert nails. Fixing the back cosmetically once the flaw is corrected will be more troublesome than the fixing of the flaw. Brasher soldered or brazed the backs to the sides with a large metal device (iron) that was pre-heated, so the original construction was very basic; however, dealing with that cosmetic fix, grinding the newly soldered pieces down, and then replating would a big problem, I believe. If it were mine, I would fix the structural problem properly, straighten out the depressions caused by the nails, and then probably insert wooden plugs to fill the holes, using as pretty a dowel as I could find. I would also consider using mother of pearl or abalone (with backing) to fill the opening. If there was any appearance of misalignment of the holes, I would enlarge one or both before filling with whatever material. The point is that I would make that material look very elegant in order to obviate the need to replate. I believe, as do many others, that relating (refinishing) is the biggest factor in diminishing the value of the instrument.
Correction: When I said "relating" in the last sentence, I should have said "replating".
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don10
MM Forum Member
Posts: 9
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Post by don10 on Apr 27, 2015 23:30:35 GMT
I was being cheeky concerning the nails. I don't believe that it removes much value from the instrument, and it certainly does not remove ALL value from the instrument. From a practical stand-point, the first thing I'd be concerned about is why the nails were inserted in the first place. I'm certain that there is a better method for fixing whatever flaw caused the need to insert nails. Fixing the back cosmetically once the flaw is corrected will be more troublesome than the fixing of the flaw. Brasher soldered or brazed the backs to the sides with a large metal device (iron) that was pre-heated, so the original construction was very basic; however, dealing with that cosmetic fix, grinding the newly soldered pieces down, and then replating would a big problem, I believe. If it were mine, I would fix the structural problem properly, straighten out the depressions caused by the nails, and then probably insert wooden plugs to fill the holes, using as pretty a dowel as I could find. I would also consider using mother of pearl or abalone (with backing) to fill the opening. If there was any appearance of misalignment of the holes, I would enlarge one or both before filling with whatever material. The point is that I would make that material look very elegant in order to obviate the need to replate. I believe, as do many others, that relating (refinishing) is the biggest factor in diminishing the value of the instrument. Hi Bryan, Wow, that's great advice, I'm glad I wrote in. Very insightful. Thanks so much for taking the time.
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Post by bryanbradfield on Apr 28, 2015 15:50:55 GMT
Although these guitars are not exactly Stradivarius level items, they are a part of Canadian history, a series of events, and group of musical instruments that arose, and can never be replicated. Two artisans were involved. I wrote of the life of Ted Brasher, but I'm somewhat unclear on the life of Arthur Hensel. I'm proud of my single instrument. I play it out and about frequently, and never tire of talking about its significance. A relatively large and diverse group of these instruments has been accumulated, and I hope that a museum of sorts eventually comes into being.
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Post by domidom43 on May 6, 2015 0:36:33 GMT
I recently may have been really lucky a purchase a resonator guitar buy Charles Edward brasher, the name on it is the rare silvatone, it has the Hawaiian flowers on the front and the Hawaiian dancer in the back with the palm trees. Now evidently im looking to know if this is really the real thing and was wondering if you guys might know more information on the silvatone. The Patent is the same numbers as all other PAT349662, C. Brasher marking on it, the designed is etched in. full metal body, wood neck, it's all in one piece, all it was missing was a tuner nut and strings, it plays great, has that sweet old sound. the serial# is 600
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Post by bryanbradfield on May 6, 2015 3:37:02 GMT
I corresponded with and met Brasher's daughter. I've seen several examples, and many photos of his guitars. My comments are a blend of my opinions and observations, plus Brasher's daughter's reminiscences. The Silvatone is rare not because it is a Silvatone, but because it is a metal bodied Brasher guitar. The wood bodied instruments seem to have been destined for the retail market and were built in larger quantities by more than one set of hands. The metal bodied instruments were hand built, lovingly crafted guitars built in limited quantities by Brasher. There were a variety of names added to the metal bodied guitars, usually on the resonator cover bridge strap. I know on no reason for the different names on the metal bodied instruments. I have seen photos of at least one guitar with Silvatone on the resonator cover bridge strap.
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Post by domidom43 on May 6, 2015 4:05:52 GMT
here are some photos, I understand that's it is simply an opinion, I did do some research and would be quite honored to have you opinion on it, thank you!
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Post by domidom43 on May 6, 2015 4:18:21 GMT
We have done research on it since we have obtained it, but as far as we can see, there is not a lot of information online, here are the last 2 photos, there also seems to be the initials J.X.C (as what I can make of it) on the top left front of the body, unfortunately in the full body photo it is in the glared area, once again, thank you Attachments:
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Post by bryanbradfield on May 6, 2015 19:39:55 GMT
Yup - a Brasher body. The neck appears to be by Hensel. The engraving is typical. The human faces are usually hideous. The initials JCX - do they look consistent with the other engraving? If not, perhaps they were added by a subsequent owner?
Most importantly, how does it sound?
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Post by domidom43 on May 6, 2015 22:44:19 GMT
it still plays great! and sounds great for her age and a small amount of warping on the neck from humidity. does not seem to have ever been repaired and still has the aluminum cone with wood/metal biscuit and that as well does not seem to be an altered piece as the patent talks about those models using glass. I am wondering what the #600 means? I see other silvatones with numbers 648# and 678# and I am very curious on what they mean
thank you Attachments:
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Post by bryanbradfield on May 7, 2015 14:31:51 GMT
The 3 initials look to me to be original to the guitar. I'm betting the guitar was made for a specific person.
What could a number mean? It could mean #600 of a series. But, at what number did the series begin. Check the beginning of Martin serial numbers for one version of how to begin serializing.
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Post by domidom43 on May 7, 2015 18:42:20 GMT
I have a theory. correct me if I may be wrong but ted only made a few of the silvatone? and before that made several others like (the maui) (the aloha) (the reliance)etc; would the silvatone be the 6th version of guitars made by ted? if so would that make each middle number 6(7)8 the 7th guitar made of that version and 6(4)8 the 4th guitar made of that version? then I wonder what 8 means. if I am correct #600 is the first version of the silvatone guitar created. the only way I will beable to be 100% is to search for as many of teds guitars as I can and line up the numbers. sounds tedious
thank you for all the help brian! we greatly appreciate it!
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Post by bryanbradfield on May 8, 2015 0:47:03 GMT
That is a really interesting theory. I encourage you to pursue it. Where did you find the 600 number on your guitar? I have my wood bodied Brasher completely disassembled on the work bench right now. I'll take a look to see if I can find a number, but I can't recall seeing one on or in the guitar in the 35 or so years that I've owned it.
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Post by domidom43 on May 8, 2015 1:19:10 GMT
it is writen on the bottom of the cover plate and as well on the neck brace inside the guitar, I am in alberta as well neer the Edmonton area, would you like to meet and see the guitar ill send you my email address, phone number via message
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