The National Replicon

[Alan]

I wondered what peoples thoughts were on the National Replicon. Its a National Resophonic replica of an original National

Suposed to look like its from the 20's, with a bit of sandblasting and a rub of brillo pad in all the right places.



Why woulod people buy a replica, when you could get the original for the same price, or get something bespoke made?

Can anyone see people getting confused and ripped off, especially if they do this so some of the more expebsive tricones ?

[Michael Messer]

Hi Alan, the National Replicon! I have seen some close-up photos and I must say that the workmanship on distressing the body to make it look old does appear to be very well done. The neck, in the photos, doesn't appear to look as genuine. I guess it was always on the cards for National Reso-ponic to make a fake oldie, many of the major manufacturers do them and it is probably a very logical & lucrative marketing plan. The one that springs to mind is the Muddy Waters Fender. Personally speaking, I can't see the point in making a brand new guitar look like a second-hand one, but, I do actually prefer the look of this guitar to other new Nationals, it just looks more 'right' in my eyes. I haven't actually seen one in the flesh (locomotive skin), so I will reserve final judgement until then. I guess their next move will be to start selling distressed cones......a dent here and there, a tear on the edge, a few drops of sweat & metal polish spattered over it......and there you have it......a replica vintage cone!
Shine On,
Michael.

[MM]

Hey I just found this picture of Blind Boy Fuller playing a National Replicon.

[Michael Segui]

I played one at Folkway Music in Guelph Ontario.

and it was one of the BEST Nationals new or old I have ever played. Ther is talk on the IGS forum that they may be heat treating the bodies on the replicons to make them more rigid. I dunno. All I know is that was one AMAZING National!!!

Michael Segui
Est. 1974
"The electric guitar is a fraud." - Mance Lipscomb

[Michael Messer]

MESSAGE FOR MICHAEL SEGUI:

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the posts, Trojan & Replicon. I have heard about this heat treatment to age the metal, I am sure they know what they are doing and have created a great guitar. The problem I have with it, is that for the price they are asking I could buy a 1930s National Style O in beautiful condition, I currently know of four of them for sale. I have known this company, National Reso-Phonic Guitars, since they started and it appears that they are now not only acknowledging the greatness of the original company and their instruments, but actually trying to blur the difference between National Reso-Phonic & National. The new company has no connection whatsoever with the original company. I guess what will happen is that it will re-kindle interest in original Nationals, which has waned recently, and put their value up. A real 1930s National Style O has got to be worth more than a National Reso-Phonic Replicon.

In addition.....I have to say.....It does look amazing & I look forward to seeing one in the flesh (locomotive skin). I hope to be reviewing one in the near future.

The Trojan looks great. They are wonderful guitars and have a unique tone. I have played wood bodied Nationals & Fine Resophonic guitars for the past ten years. The Trojan is a great guitar & for my money would be preferable to play than a modern metal resophonic guitar. I know of one for sale in the UK. It is at the London Resonator Centre and used to belong to Eric Bibb. I don't know the asking price, but they are lovely guitars.

If anyone else has something to say about these new Replicon guitars.....we'd love to hear from you.

Thanks for joining our forum & keep in touch,
Shine On,
Michael.

[Larry Conrad]

Hi all - interesting discussion! But what does the Replicon cost? The first posting suggests that it may be as dear as an old one. And that leads, I guess, to an extremely subjective question for Michael: as an experienced player, do you see any big difference in the sound of an old National as opposed to a new one. Do these things "just get better with age", as one can say with a great acoustic guitar? As the sudden and unsuspecting owner of a couple of the old ones, I have to say I just love the sound, but I find it difficult to compare with a new one - they really are different beasts, aren't they?

[Michael Messer]

Hi Larry,
The National Replicon is listed at $3300 USD. Regarding your question about old ones versus new ones - you are correct in saying that they are very different, whether that is a positive or a negative depends on personal taste. Old Nationals from the 1920s & 30s do have a whole different feel & prescence to the instruments built by National Reso-Phonic Guitars. A point to make clear is that there is really no such thing as old Nationals versus new Nationals; there are instruments built by National and there are instruments built by National Reso-Phonic. The two companies have absolutely no connection to each other at all. I think that most people assume that they are an extension of the original company, which is not the case.

I think that other makers such as Fine Resophonic & Beltona get closer that old feel & sound, but ....National Reso-Phonic have become a major brand that is one of the leading names in the acoustic guitar market. Their instruments are very well built, their cones are excellent and the instruments play well and will last for a hundred years or so. They are played by some of the top players in the world. Personally I find that some of the so-called improvements and modifications that have been done, are questionable....(But....they are selling like hot cakes all over the world and everybody speaks very highly of them). My personal preference is for the hand-made instruments that remain faithful to the old ways. I am very supportive of what National Reso-Phonic do; I have known them since the early days when they launched their first models and I have reviewed & promoted their products very positively in the media, they are faithful users of our Newtone MM strings (for which I am eternally grateful), but I do not own one of their instruments.
How's the lap steel playing coming along?
Keep in touch Larry,
Shine On,
Michael.

[Mr Williams]

In addition to the thread about National Replicon guitars, now the National Replicon Tricone has arrived. These guitars appear to look as wonderful as the single cone Replicon, but for one minor detail. I have never seen Brass coming through the plating on a style 1 National Tricone before!
Faithfully,
Mr Williams

[Richard]

Good point, should they not be made from what is termed 'german silver' as indeed were the shells of many vintage car radiators, that's a useful point to drop into any pre-dinner party conversation

[rickS]

Can't see the point of these, other than to give the illusion of it being 'the real thing', which strikes me as kinda sad but predictable in today's 'appearance-is-everything' world - can't help feeling any of the oldtime National-players would've passed these up for a nice shiny NEW model..

[David K]

I must say that the idea of a "relic" NR-P guitar struck me as pretty silly when I first heard about it on the IGS forum. It seems that the word is out, however, that the Replicons sound just great. All I hear about them these days is praise.

The old vs. new debate - well, I suppose like much else, this is a subjective matter. I own two contemporary NR-P guitars, and I've tried a few old ones, two tricones and two Duolians. The tricones were different from mine, as well they should be, considering that they made them of a different body material than they do now. The operative word here is different, not neccessarily better. The Duos were nice, shure, but I'd just as well play my Delphi, which is an absolute Deltablues powerhouse.

I guess you can tell by now that I'm pretty supportive of what Don and McGregor are doing, and I must also say that I'm under the impression that they have the highest esteem and regard for the original National company, but they're also creative people that like to expand on the original ideas of the Dopyeras Beauchamp. This creativity has spawned quite a few really good models and a few questionable ones (resonator BASS?)

If they are trying to blur the lines between themselves and the old company, IMO, it's because they got into the guitarmaking game with the explicit goal of re-introducing and re-creating everything about the old National. My opinion is that they succeeded pretty good. And I've heard rumours that a German silver tricone is in the making - they should have made this available long time ago, to the die-hard vintage freaks that requested it. I like the GS tone, but my brass style 1 is going nowhere..

OK, end of rant, just had to chime in with my views of NR-P.

Cheers,

David.

www.soundclick.com/bands/6/davidkampmann.htm

[MM]

Hi David,

There is nothing wrong with a good rant about something we are all very passionate about!

I think it is healthy & positive - and interesting to observe differences in opinion between long-time owners of vintage National guitars & owners of National Reso-Phonic guitars. I too am very supportive of the NatRes company. In fact I didn't own, but certainly had my hands on the very first NatRes guitar that came into the UK, It was a Jazz Blues. I also knew of Don and his work back in the OMI days and through my friendship with Bob Brozman back then, I was aware of the whole beginnings and development of the company. I actually approached one or two financers to help save the company when it went down.

I used to get spares from OMI back in the late 1970s. In fact I remember the first time I ordered a replacement cone it arrived from the US in an envelope and was completely squashed flat! They were surprized when I called them that it had been damaged! The next one arrived safely packed in a box.

So I am actually on your side and very supportive of what NatRes are doing. I guess that I come from the old school of ..."if it ain't broke don't fix it" and I would prefer not to see changes made that I see as unecassery - such as; screw-on hand-rests, longer scale-lengths and extra weight in the overall instrument. As you say David, these things are subjective and therefore great for discussions!

I think it is amazing how popular these instruments are, I never dreamed back when I first got into all this that Nationals would become so widely used.

Shine On & keep in touch,
Michael.

[Deleted]

All of the original tricones were not german Silver. I have seen 2 late 30's Style 1 Tricones that were original Nickel Plated, both had solid headstocks.. There were also the M3's and some of the etched ones that were brass bodies. All of the M3's that I have seen have steel coverplates (at least 7).

[David Kampmann]

Thank you for your reply, Michael.

What you write is interesting - I did not know that NR-P had changed the scale length of their instruments compared to the old ones. I guess the screw-on handrest has has some pretty obvoius design justifications (easier intonation adjustment/maintenance, Dowling-style hand damping) but the added scale lenght intrigues me - do you have any idea whay they did this?

I used to own an OMI Dobro as well, actually a nice-sounding instrument, but with a few very quirky design flaws. I part-traded it for my style 1 after hearing and playing my good friend Finn's black brass style 1. That was it - I was sold.

I now also have the Delphi i emtioned before, and I really enjoy both instruments for several reasons, their sound being the most important. The tricone gets unreal sometimes, you'd swear it had built-in compression and reverb.

Cheers,

David.

[Michael Messer]

Hi David,

Original National guitars do have a shorter scale length – they vary between 626 & 632mm, National Reso-Phonic are 650mm. The reason for the change was to move the neck-to-body-join so that it is exactly 12 frets-to-the-body. Original Nationals vary – some are 11½ frets to the body and some are 11¾ frets to the body. This scale-length dates back to the original square-neck Hawaiian-style Tricones (National Silver Guitars) designed by John Dopyera.

Regarding the removable hand-rest – I agree that probably it makes set-up a little easier, although it would still be preferable to remove the whole coverplate so one can adjust cone positions during the set-up. As for the acoustic guitar style damping, I would advise caution there as too much pressure over a long period will damage the cone. I have never experienced dampening problems with any resophonic guitars. I guess I am so used to them having played them for so many years.

Shine On,
Michael.