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Post by roadiemanchild on Jan 4, 2011 23:56:06 GMT
I guess I'm just stupid. I wish I could figure out how to post more than 1 pic. Madening Attachments:
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Post by Matt on Jan 5, 2011 8:38:06 GMT
Get a free account with a photo hosting site like Flickr or Photobucket, or even upload them to facebook. Photobucket and FLickr probably show you a URL for the photos, but if not (and on facebook) get the image up on you screen in full size, right click and 'copy image address'. Then you can ass several images to a post here, you can use the ![]() URL{/img ] repeatedly to post several images. I know you ca attach photos to posts directly, but I don't know how to add several. Also, I believe Colin at Notecannons is after some photos of one of these, so I'm sure he'd appreciate it if you sent them his way! Any chance of a shot of the whole thing? |
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Post by Colin McCubbin on Jan 9, 2011 0:39:05 GMT
Thanks for the pictures ! I've resized and cropped a couple, I haven't dug out the catalogue yet, (I only have the 42 Catalogue, but I'm fairly certain it is in there) but will do so soon. ;-) |
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Post by Colin McCubbin on Jan 9, 2011 1:10:48 GMT
1942 catalogue Interestingly, yours actually looks like the New Yorker body (look at the jack socket and tail piece, also the control knob position, but with the Chicago neck, bridge and pickup... Don't you just love the mix and match that went on at the factory! Chicago New Yorker Prices April 2nd 1942. |
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Post by snakehips on Jan 9, 2011 20:34:54 GMT
Hi there ! Mine was exactly the same as that one, except mine had black bakelite knobs for V+T. Same tailpiece and bridge. The inlays on mine were a bit more basic :  Lovely guitar - very cool. Wish I hadn't sold mine. My one's serial no. was : 635G How about this National, supposedly owned by Elmore James, held at the Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame : (looks like a Princess Electric Spanish, with the elegant narrow F-holes)  |
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Post by Mark Makin on Jan 10, 2011 11:06:58 GMT
Hi Snake I'm sure I've been over this before. Of the two pics immediately above - the top one is a New Yorker, the bottom is a Princess. There is NO Chicago here - the top bouts on a Chicago are very narrow and straighter than the other two also dot markers and different headstock, knobs in different layout and the top of the headstock has a shape reminiscent of the top edge of a Tricone or maybe a wavy moustache type Gibson. The Chicago also has a National style tailpiece - the others don't.  |
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Post by Matt on Jan 10, 2011 18:08:44 GMT
To me, the first guitar in this thread appears to be a New Yorker with the pickup from another model? The knob layout, tailpiece, fretboard inlays, and the binding on the neck, body and headstock all match the New Yorker in the catalogue?
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Post by Mark Makin on Jan 10, 2011 22:52:50 GMT
that's what I said - there are no Chicagos pictured in this thread!
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Post by Matt on Jan 10, 2011 23:54:19 GMT
Neither of the two guitars immediately above your post was the original guitar fro this thread, the one at the top has different inlays and white (replacement?) knobs! Out of interest, is the drawn picture one of yours? And would it be likely that the New Yorker immediately above that post is an older model, judging by the older looking (to me) style of inlays?
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Post by Mark Makin on Jan 11, 2011 11:26:20 GMT
Matt
The two pics posted by Colin are a National New Yorker made around 1942/3 - white knobs.
The guitar below posted by Snake is a New Yorker made in 1941/2 - black knobs, warmer colour.
The one underneath is a Princess -= same date.
The New Yorker has (to my knowledge) 8 different variants from 1937 or so up to 1957 - different knobs, different knob positions, different logos, different scratchplate shapes and colours. The earliest has no f holes and is the one pictured with Memphis Minnie in her satin dress.
New Yorkers ALL had trapezium bar markers until after the war then they had dot markers.
The Chicago was issued as a budget model of the New Yorker but IT DOES NOT HAVE THE SAME BODY SHAPE.
The Princess has a tortoiseshell headstock and matching scratchplate. It is identical to the Supro El Capitan except for dot markers and a slightly diffrent position for the knobs.
When National issued an instrument it fitted whatever was its hardware at the time. The pickup used here with split poles and six coils that Snake has discussed before was used on everything National made that needed a pickup in 1941 or 2. That was the pickup design for that year.
The black logo shield dates an instrument to that time as well. The type of knobs date an instrument so does the tailpiece - that is how we work it out particularly if the number has been erased.
If this same instrument was identical but had a black vinyl pickup with six pole pieces in a line and it had lost its serial number - IT MUST BE 1952 because that was the ONLY year that pickup was used. Do you begin to get the idea of how this research is worked out?
People ALWAYS get confused with similar models like these. It is because they see one picture and assume that that is what the instrument was always like - they never consider how the model went through different variants over a ten year period.
Look at early teles and 2011 teles, early Gibson Les Pauls and 2011 Les Pauls. You have to LOOK!
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Post by Matt on Jan 11, 2011 12:17:57 GMT
Mark, your encyclopedic knowledge of nationals is as impressive as ever! I wasn't trying to correct you with those posts, I was just a bit confused as you didn't seem to have mentioned the guitar colin posted directly, and Colin had suggested that it was a new yorker with a chicago neck! I was just thinking in terms of what you said when we met about paying attention to the smaller details. Considering what you said about various pickups being used over the years, would that suggest that both new yorkers on this thread have all the standard parts for the time they were produced?
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Post by Mark Makin on Jan 11, 2011 15:20:03 GMT
Hello again Matt Exactly so. After a time you begin to understand the chronology and the longevity of the particular parts NOT just the model type. A pickup may be in fashion from (say) 1947 to 1952 and the wide gold National logo may be in fashion from (say) 1950 to 1956. It doesn't take a great mind to work out that the instrument is going to fall in the 18 months around 1951 does it? This is why (in answer to your last part) that I said that both New Yorkers are 1941/2 and 1942/3 respectively. The white knobs are original parts but more prevalent on New Yorkers into the post war and early 1950s so these would be later parts (i.e. after the black ribbed knobs). As production closed in late 1942 it has to be around this period. I don't see where the Chicago neck comes into this that Colin mentions? For information and clarity here is another Chicago   |
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Post by Matt on Jan 12, 2011 21:46:42 GMT
What I meant when i mention Colin's reference to the Chicago neck, is that was what my comment immediately after your first refers to, was that the guitar (when compared with the catalogue) appears to be all New Yorker, not one with a Chicago neck
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Post by Colin McCubbin on Jan 16, 2011 1:47:25 GMT
New Yorker it is... ;D
The owner emailed that he had a Chicago and I failed to do more than respond the body looked New Yorker.. My factory 'mix and match' comment stands though!
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